The best recessed lights for remodel

[tucker]

Working w/ a customer and architect on total house remodel. Still in planning stages. Architect wants to install 22 new can lights. House has low pitched roofs(3-5), many valley areas, minimal fiberglass insulation(r-30) in ceilings, and a couple cathedral ceilings. I expressed my concerns about icedamns (we average about 180 inches of snow a year). Architect is from DC area and said that in these cases they have used insulated can lights. Architect suggested lightolier brand.

I am having a couple thoughts.

First, I think it is a bad idea.

Second, what is the best can light (brand/model) for this type of install?

Third, w/ this many can lights being added I feel like I should upgrade the ceiling insulation ...could this be done w/out removing the ceiling drywall in places (maybe extruded rigid foam over drywall, furring strips, and then new drywall or T & G pine....but now that I think about it it is probably more cost effective/effecient to just remove all the ceiling drywall.

Any thoughts are appreciated? Any recommendation on can light brands is greatly appreciated?

[David Meiland]

Cans generally amount to a big hole in your insulation, especially in cathedral ceilings where many types barely fit into a 2x10 rafter bay. My electricians hate Lightolier but that's just a personal thing, they prefer Juno. I have not seen insulated cans but there are insulation-contact (IC) cans and that's certainly what you need.

[tjbnwi]

I use Juno or Halo recessed lighting.

This makes the fixtures much more energy (heat loss) efficient;

http://www.tenmat-us.com/thermal-product-ff135.htm

I would also highly recommend the use of CFL's, they are now available with dimming capabilities.

Tj

[Bill Robinson]

I would explain recessed cans are equivalent to avocado colored appliances when it comes to energy efficiency.

f you do can lights do the ICAT ones.
And maybe work with a lighting consultant to explore the different types of lighting to make sure you achieve the desired result.
ICAT bill R

[Joe Adams]

My electricians hate Lightolier but that's just a personal thing, they prefer Juno.

That's funny! My electrician will only use Lightolier. They claim they are made much better than HALO & Commercial Electric. I supply all fixtures so there's no reason for bias there.

[David Meiland]

I don't have much experience with Lightolier, but the few I have used were very expensive and very tinny. The architect spec'd them because they have some cool trims.

[butcher]

My electrician doesn't like lightolier either. They are a lot more difficult to install in an existing ceiling than the Halo. They may be better quality but for the price difference and difficulty of install I dont think they are worth it.

If you are using them for directional lighting (washing walls) the ceiling joists have to be in just the right spots or the lights will not lay out in the ceiling nicely. We ran into this problem on a job this spring.

[Joe Adams]

I don't want to become the self appointed champion for Lightolier but my experiences have been very positive.

A 6" IC new construction housing runs about $12 and a remodel is $2 more. Both the housings and the trims are made from aluminum so they won't rust.

In my experience, the remodel cans install easily. Cut a hole, pop in the plaster ring, make your connection, and pop in the can.

[David Meiland]

In my experience, the remodel cans install easily. Cut a hole, pop in the plaster ring, make your connection, and pop in the can.

General contractor admits to installing electrical fixture. Bring in the firing squad.

[Joe Adams]

General contractor admits to installing electrical fixture. Bring in the firing squad.

Thank goodness this thread is in Building Science and not The Electric Shop!

I can either confess to being an occasional fully uncertified jackleg electrician or I can say...

"It sure looked easy while I watched the remodel can installation performed by a highly qualified, experienced, and licensed master electrician."

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

p.s. All joking aside, it really did happen that way.

[butcher]

On the remodelers that we used the light itself sticks out the side of the can about three or four inches and has to be facing a certain direction to wash a wall. This means if the ceiling joist is too close it wont point in the right direction.
The electricians also had a problem putting the two parts together up in the hole and ended up doing it from above since we had access.
The other problem we ran into is the clearance on the trim rings. they only cover about a1/4" so if the holes are not cut perfect they will show around the edges. I think this problem was more due to inexperience in installing these cans. Next time they will know to cut the holes exactly to size.
I dont like bashing lightolier because my brother sells them, but we had a bad experience.

[Joe Adams]

Next time they will know to cut the holes exactly to size.

My electrician uses a cutout kit made by Lightolier that adjusts to cut perfect holes for their different sized cans. It costs about $100 but is far nicer than most of the other can light hole kits on the market.

[hdrider_chgo]

I would also highly recommend the use of CFL's, they are now available with dimming capabilities.

Tj

Be careful on expecting dimming capabilities with standard screw-in CFL's. I could never get dimming to work. Spoke to both Neptune ("dimmable" CFL manufacturer, who was evasive about what dimmer to use) and Lutron who said results with CFL's were "unpredictable", from working fine, to working fine but premature bulb failure, to not working at all. That was about two years ago, maybe things have improved.