Hardie vrs Certainteed, Nichiha, others?

**hotrodracer** · 09-14-2009, 02:58 AM

Have a 31 X 29 2 story addition up in Wrightwood, CA, that will need cement fiber siding. Also the existing 660 s.f. existing cedar shingle wall cover will be stripped, and then resided. Area is at 6,600 ft elevation, and gets snow. Proposed has 1/2" 'Struc-1' shear panel and CDX over all exterior wall areas.

Owner wants Hardy/similar siding for fire resistance value over cedar siding. Also San Bernardino Building Dept requires 5/8" type X gyp board under any wood siding, an additional cost factor.

Me? Ca lic 'B' since 1965 and have used most all sidings except JH and other cement fiber types. As I have no practical experience with the several different manufactures of these products I respectfully request your likes and dislikes of what is available. And why you like and or dislike said material. Not just hearsay and or other fluff, real actual experience is what I am requesting...

I like the variety of Nichiha's offerings and the availability of JH, etc. Again, give me your real world input on which to use, and why, or why not, OK?

hotrod/Paul

**Tim Uhler** · 09-15-2009, 08:33 AM

We have used Hardie since the late 90's and on the little project we just finished, we used CertainTeed fiber cement. It is much nicer looking, but a little more brittle. We prefer the look over the Hardie, it looks less cheap.

The house we are getting ready to build, the lumberyard we got a great bid from stocks CemPlank. So I have to take a look at that and do some research.

Both were slightly less $$ than Hardie.

Josh installs a lot of the Nichiha, I have no experience with that.

**NW Architect** · 09-15-2009, 11:34 AM

Offer the Owner the cost to add gyp sheathing on everything (non-paper faced type) to everything. You are building in forest fire country and the addition could save the structure somewhere down the road. Might yield a fire insurance premium reduction in all intervening years, too.

If snow drifts against the structure in winter and never gets removed (and the ground floor is wood framed), also consider the addition of rainscreen detailing. Seven months of snow banks melting against the wall of a structure can make a mess

**J.Buesking** · 09-15-2009, 05:13 PM

I agree with Tim on the certainteed having the best wood grain until the nichiha lap came out. I think it looks the best but honestly it's so new I can not personally recommend it yet.

Hardie is the most used and has market share. I've had very few problems with it and would say it's set's the market standard. Other's are either better or worse than hardie.

Certainteed looks good and is cheaper. I've noticed it shrinks the most and opens up alot in the seams. I haven't installed much of it lately so this could have changed.

I think the best fiber cement out right now is the nichiha premium shake. 12 year warranty on the clear stained finish. It's thicker and seems to be much stronger of a panel.

LP has a good plank out but again I haven't really installed to much of it. Maybe 5 jobs and honestly I have followed up with it since it's been in the weather.

If it was my house I would probably use the James Hardie Primed and paint it on the house. I'm not a huge fan of the color plus. I've had lots of success with it but the caulk not so much.

**tuckergw** · 09-18-2009, 03:06 PM

Certainteed makes a exterior gypsum sheathing product that is used mainly in commercial application, GlasRoc...... It would work just fine for a sheathing in reseidential as well. The Certainteed and Jame Hardie meet all of the current code requirements including wind uplift. The new player, Nichiha, does not meet the wind uplift standard that International Building Codes..... be careful here. The Certaintteed product is the best looking product. Their shakes are a full 5/16" thick vs 1/4" by JH. Make sure you have dry product before you install it. The shrinkage is from installing wet boards. It is the nature of fiber cement siding. Painting on the wall vs pre-finish. I too like to paint it on the wall. Two coats of a high quality exterior latex will do the best job. The caulk joints should be nice and tight. Use the best grade product that you can find. Caulk joints will fail long before the boards needs painting.

**J.Buesking** · 09-18-2009, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by tuckergw

Nichiha, does not meet the wind uplift standard that International Building Codes..... be careful here. T

Can you provide more info?

**hotrodracer** · 09-19-2009, 02:02 AM

Ol hotrod thanks all for their input so far.

I like the looks of the Nichiha cut stone panels as they resemble parts of the existing stone foundation. Also as they are 18" high, stacking 3 high would come out even w/ the existing. I would have no probs using more than one supplier, but prefer one to keep the warranty blame game at bay.

Would the 18" panels be a better water/snow shield than the regular lap siding? Do get several snow storms per winter, and can have 24" snow standing unless there is a unusual heavy snow fall.

Come on guys/gals, wise me up, OK???

hotrod/Paul

**ThingOfBeauty** · 09-19-2009, 08:35 PM

I have only used Hardie, it's very reliable around here. Prepainted I have seen issues with touchups, like with any prefinished product. Also a friend says the prefinished had problems on one of his jobs--colors slightly off--and he was blamed for it for something he felt that Hardie should have covered, maybe storage or something, anyway they didn't fix it for him.
I had a chat with a new Nichiha distributor, he said the distributor company owner was flown to Japan and quite impressed. The American was asked how he plans for the future of his company and proudly discussed the five-year planning cycle his company uses. Nichiha apparently told him about their one-year, five year, twenty and one hundred year plans. Apparently they are pretty committed to doing things right over there!

**Cowboy** · 09-20-2009, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by hotrodracer

Have a 31 X 29 2 story addition up in Wrightwood, CA, that will need cement fiber siding. Also the existing 660 s.f. existing cedar shingle wall cover will be stripped, and then resided. Area is at 6,600 ft elevation, and gets snow. Proposed has 1/2" 'Struc-1' shear panel and CDX over all exterior wall areas.

Owner wants Hardy/similar siding for fire resistance value over cedar siding. Also San Bernardino Building Dept requires 5/8" type X gyp board under any wood siding, an additional cost factor.

Me? Ca lic 'B' since 1965 and have used most all sidings except JH and other cement fiber types. As I have no practical experience with the several different manufactures of these products I respectfully request your likes and dislikes of what is available. And why you like and or dislike said material. Not just hearsay and or other fluff, real actual experience is what I am requesting...

I like the variety of Nichiha's offerings and the availability of JH, etc. Again, give me your real world input on which to use, and why, or why not, OK?

hotrod/Paul

I've used Hardie and Certainteed bot alot. We've had shrinkage problems with the Certainteed fiber cement in fact I have a claim with CT on my own home.
They've already replaced the siding for one of my customers.
We generally use the primed so we have no site issues.

**Tim Uhler** · 11-16-2009, 08:20 AM

We had quite a bit of shrinkage with CertainTeed and will not use it again. I'm glad it was just a small project.

We sat through a demo of the Nichiha last week and would really like to use it on the custom we just started, unless we can talk the customers into LP. But here the real estate agents all have said that it is not as desirable to the customer as fiber cement.

We'll see.

**J.Buesking** · 11-16-2009, 08:43 AM

I'm not to confident in any of these products with lots of fly ash in them yet. I'm hearing that it's not helping with the shrinkage.

You really can't go wrong with hardie at this point.

**Tim Uhler** · 11-16-2009, 05:29 PM

Josh,

I was wondering about the fly ash after we had the CertainTeed shrink. Sitting through the demo for Nichiha last week, it sounds like they have been around for a long time in Japan. I wonder if the fly ash is a new ingredient to their material?

I'm going to meet up with the LP rep sometime soon and go over their products. I don't like where fiber cement is going and LP has a good warranty (appears anyway).

**Mark Parlee** · 11-16-2009, 06:11 PM

Paul

The Nichiha is a good looking product
Proper installation is critical to the performance and longevity of these products.
http://www.nichiha.com/pdf/Installat...all_120108.pdf

**J.Buesking** · 11-16-2009, 06:41 PM

I'm got about 900 sq. of Nichiha on the schedule for Q1 2010.

I'm mainly worried about about the traditional lap. The Sierra Premium and other thicker panels are good to go. I've been installing that for almost 3 years now.

The traditional lap with the fly ash is what i'm worried about.

I think the fly ash is relativity new Tim, with the green movement it's getting pushed more than ever that's for sure.

**Andrew R.** · 11-16-2009, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by J.Buesking

If it was my house I would probably use the James Hardie Primed and paint it on the house. I'm not a huge fan of the color plus. I've had lots of success with it but the caulk not so much.

I agree, that's the best way to go. Every job I do is painted after install.

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