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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    477

    Default Window Installation - Preventative measures

    As suggested, I'll start this thread where we can discuss various brands of windows and the preventative measure we take in their installation.

    The window I'm doing right now is a 102" x 70", 4-gang of double hungs, and it's the Pinnacle clad series by Windsor.

    The wall around this window is masonite siding and i'm tearing that out to replace it with Hardie plank. The trim is 5/4x4 and I'm replacing it with Miratec. I will be wrapping the top and sides with a six or so inch wide rubber/aluminum weather tape.

    I have an issue at the bottom where a roof is coming out of the house just below the window and I have no way to extend the fin down and nail it to anything. I'm going to Sketch-up the problem and post it here in a few minutes.

    rP

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Des Moines, Iowa
    Posts
    3,817

    Default Re: Window Installation - Preventative measures

    The pinnicle is a better window but the concern I have on all of the them is the mullion where they are joined will drain moisture and we have not been allowing for this on windows that are wrapped with trim. I am looking at a home that has this trim detail and it is all at 100% MC. I have been guilty of this myself but due to this latest consult I will design a new detail that will let the water out.
    Mark Parlee
    BESI(building envelope science institute) Envelope Inspector
    EDI Certified EIFS Inspector/Moisture Analyst/Quality Control/Building Envelope II
    Level one thermagrapher (Snell Training)
    www.thebuildingconsultant.com
    www.parleebuilders.com
    You build to code, code is the minimum to pass this test. Congratulations your grade is a D-

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    477

    Default Re: Window Installation - Preventative measures

    here it is
    Attached Images Attached Images

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    477

    Default Re: Window Installation - Preventative measures

    I need to get on a step ladder and look at the top of this thing in the morning. I haven't studied it much since it arrived. It is a combo of four seperate windows, so I assume I've got three mullion strips running on there.
    I don't know if they're factory plugged at the tops and open at the bottoms or what. I think what Dick Seibert was saying about silicone in the tops and the bottoms left open sounds smart.
    I do know it's a continuous fin and it came with the rubber corner stick-ons.

    I'll bring the camera with me and if i find anything interesting I'll post them tomorrow.

    I'm not new to this but I'm appreciating all advice as somehow this large and expensive window is a little more intimidating to me.

    rP

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Martinez, California
    Posts
    14,827

    Default Re: Window Installation - Preventative measures

    Quote Originally Posted by RP
    I have an issue at the bottom where a roof is coming out of the house just below the window and I have no way to extend the fin down and nail it to anything.
    This is an unworkable situation, there are two alternatives:

    1) Buy a shorter window so you have at least 6" between the bottom of the window and the roof, do not put any siding in that 6", leave the metal slashing exposed.

    If this is impossible because of time or architectural considerations I understand, I've had to deal with this myself:

    2) Cut into the roof leaving 6" below the window creating a "pocket" below the window and in the roof, have a good tin-man fabricate an elaborate pocket flashing in the roof extending up to the window sill, be sure the horizontal portion of the flashing slopes more than ¼" to the foot, and also have him fabricate an elaborate sill pan that has a flange going down over the metal of the roof pocket metal. Some architects do this on purpose to pocket the window into the roof, it's a tough detail and I recommend a lot of professional soldering by a good tin-man who can still solder vertically, be sure to thoroughly water test the roof pocket flashing, then after installing the sill pan and window thoroughly water test the combined flashing again.
    “It is not an endlessly expanding list of rights —the “right” to an education; the “right” to health care; the “right” to food and housing. That is not freedom. That is dependency. Those are not rights. Those are the rations of slavery – hay and a barn for human cattle.” - Alexis de Tocqueville

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    9,252

    Default Re: Window Installation - Preventative measures

    Quote Originally Posted by Dick Seibert View Post
    This is an unworkable situation, there are two alternatives:

    1) Buy a shorter window so you have at least 6" between the bottom of the window and the roof, do not put any siding in that 6", leave the metal slashing exposed.
    That was my first thought - especially if there is snow on the roof ever. 6" at least and preferably a little more here.

    Speaking of weird scenarios - we replaced 6 picture windows today on a sloped wall - about 15 degrees. Interesting.
    “Racism is man's gravest threat to man - the maximum of hatred for a minimum of reason.”
    Abraham J. Heschel (Jewish theologian and philosopher, 1907-1972)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    7,468

    Default Re: Window Installation - Preventative measures

    Agree with Dick, I would not let this happen. I actually had to do this on my own house many years ago and I shortened the windows in order to get reasonable clearance.

    Cutting a pocket into the shed roof below is not always possible, as you would have to cut into the rafters. This opens up a can of worms structurally.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    11,339

    Default Re: Window Installation - Preventative measures

    rP- Not that difficult. Have a metal pan made up that turns up inside the house and down to the roof flashing below. If the roof is really only an inch or so below the rough opening you might want to make the down leg turn down to the roof & then down the roof a couple inches. Being that close to the roof I bed the pan in sealant and make sure to wrap any peel & stick into the pan.

    One difficulty with a set of windows this wide is how to fasten them so they are tight in the middle at the bottom where you won't be able to fasten them. I haven't installed one this wide in a while, but the last one I used dots of sealant across the bottom to hold the window, figuring that (along with the trim on the inside) would hold the window. I have a couple of over-kill thoughts about getting tabs welded to the pan that could be used to screw the window to the pan & the pan to the framing (down-leg on the inside). Only necessary on really big or really wide windows, but...
    http://www.lavrans.com

    "He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp posts; for support rather than illumination." -Andrew Lang

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    477

    Default Re: Window Installation - Preventative measures

    Well then, it's client conference time. There is room to go up with the window. This is a replacement of a 4-gang and a half round. The header's about ten inches north of the new window I've framed it down and drywalled it, but I can tear that out and move up. Certainly don't have much choice- it's sitting in the room already, all $1600 of it.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    11,339

    Default Re: Window Installation - Preventative measures

    Oh, yeah- North something. Snow. That means snow & ice, hey?

    Makes a regular pan a little less secure.
    http://www.lavrans.com

    "He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp posts; for support rather than illumination." -Andrew Lang

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    477

    Default Re: Window Installation - Preventative measures

    I'm in Raleigh NC, I should go change that, few people ouside of the Carolinas have heard "Kakalaki" before

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    477

    Default Re: Window Installation - Preventative measures

    Quote Originally Posted by davenorthup View Post
    Speaking of weird scenarios - we replaced 6 picture windows today on a sloped wall - about 15 degrees. Interesting.
    Leaning in or out at the top?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    9,252

    Default Re: Window Installation - Preventative measures

    Quote Originally Posted by retro-patrick View Post
    Leaning in or out at the top?
    I am going to say out - if I was walking toward the window from the outside I would hit the bottom of the window first.

    Does that make sense?

    Does Raleigh get the occasional snow? I suspect that you do in blue moon.

    Yep Lavs - mid September we see the first white stuff at our house, but it does not stick until Oct. Homer gets it in Oct; but melts on and off all year - no such luck for us in the hills. We live at tree line - a whooping 1500 ft.
    “Racism is man's gravest threat to man - the maximum of hatred for a minimum of reason.”
    Abraham J. Heschel (Jewish theologian and philosopher, 1907-1972)

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    11,339

    Default Re: Window Installation - Preventative measures

    Quote Originally Posted by davenorthup View Post
    I am going to say out - if I was walking toward the window from the outside I would hit the bottom of the window first.

    Does that make sense?

    Does Raleigh get the occasional snow? I suspect that you do in blue moon.

    Yep Lavs - mid September we see the first white stuff at our house, but it does not stick until Oct. Homer gets it in Oct; but melts on and off all year - no such luck for us in the hills. We live at tree line - a whooping 1500 ft.
    Eh. You forget that I've lived up there... Of course, most of the time I would be heading back down about when the snow was starting to fall. Still- I'd trade Oregon for Alaska if I didn't have such a good reason to stay. I like AK better over all.
    http://www.lavrans.com

    "He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp posts; for support rather than illumination." -Andrew Lang

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    9,252

    Default Re: Window Installation - Preventative measures

    Quote Originally Posted by Lavrans View Post
    Eh. You forget that I've lived up there... Of course, most of the time I would be heading back down about when the snow was starting to fall. Still- I'd trade Oregon for Alaska if I didn't have such a good reason to stay. I like AK better over all.
    No I remember - mostly SE if I remember correctly? That does not really count :) - actually Homer really does not count as town is quite mild compared to many places in the lower 48.

    Except where we live - we go into town in spring with a 16" wedge of snow on our car and the grass in town is turning green already; everyone knows where we live - I hate spring!!!!!!

    The chain has the worst weather IMO as you know all too well.. :)
    “Racism is man's gravest threat to man - the maximum of hatred for a minimum of reason.”
    Abraham J. Heschel (Jewish theologian and philosopher, 1907-1972)

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