Covering exterior foam above grade

[Dancing Dan]

When you're running foam on the exterior of a slab or foundation wall, what products are you using between grade and siding to cover the foam?

[davenorthup]

Ice and water guard!!!!

Joking, that seems to be the standard here - the ground, a line of Ice and water and then the siding.

There are fiber cement panels that work and I see more and more of the faux stone used on walkouts and such...

Real stone is also an obvious choice.

[Dancing Dan]

I'd heard about people using FC panels, either leaving them alone or stuccoing over them, but are they meant to be buried? I know people do this detail all the time, just don't know what the decent products are.

[drewsledz]

I'd like some info on this, too. I usually see the foam cut off at grade exposing the foundation, which is a bit of a waste. I have seen that detail speced by an architect.

On my uncles house...15-20 years ago, they used a brush on "stucco". It looks like a parged fondation wall, but with all the strength and dent resistance of foam. Sarcasim of course.

[Bill Robinson]

In termite areas it is preferred to leave the foam off above grade some so the inspectors, termite, can see the mud tubes.
Is it possible that this practice has migrated to northern climates much the way 6mil visqueen migrated south?

Bill R

[davenorthup]

I'd heard about people using FC panels, either leaving them alone or stuccoing over them, but are they meant to be buried? I know people do this detail all the time, just don't know what the decent products are.

Yeah the FC is not supposed to touch the ground. Here we can see up to 2' of bitchothane b/c of snow depth. I have seen the FC in that space to an inch or so.

My ICF guy pushes for stone or faux stone - he hates that little stripe b/t the ground and siding.

[Dancing Dan]

In termite areas it is preferred to leave the foam off above grade some so the inspectors, termite, can see the mud tubes.
Is it possible that this practice has migrated to northern climates much the way 6mil visqueen migrated south?

Dunno, but obviously pointless to insulate the foundation if you're going to stop just when it gets cold!

Nobody has done this detail successfully? I'm losing faith in my JLC brethren. And sistren. Sistern? Cistern?

[davenorthup]

Guilty as charged. I have 2 vertical feet of bitchothane showing from this fall when we moved our house onto an ICF basement. In my defense it snowed the day we moved the house and I was still quite busy....

It will get the stone in the spring!!!!

[Bill Robinson]

This might be part of the solution.
If you are in a termite zone a drip edge-type Z-flashing would work to create an under-insulation barrier.

I have seen the product in place and it looks good.
Bill R

[Dancing Dan]

Bill - there's an extra letter in your link - here's a corrected version. I'll take a look, and we're not in termite country, yet.

[marson]

When you're running foam on the exterior of a slab or foundation wall, what products are you using between grade and siding to cover the foam?

I have used coil stock a couple of times, though I lived to regret it. (mid winter job so the options were limited) It usually winds up getting beat up, oil canning, etc.

A better way to go IMO is an EIFS product like Senergy (http://www.senergy.cc/).

Menards sells a product called "Tuff II" which is basically a cheap version of Senergy.

The real McCoy is to screw on metal lath and apply three coat cement stucco.

[Ed Michnick]

What about installing the foam on the inside of the foundation wall?

[Dancing Dan]

I've done that many times, but I'm looking at a job where they're trying to make a heated space out of a porch on a slab, so it's not an option there.

Plus if you've got the insulation on the outside, the concrete is working as thermal storage for you instead of against you. I think it's a better method in theory but I've never done it and don't know how to detail it.

[Mark Parlee]

Dan

that is a detail where we do fall short.
The stone idea is not a great option because it too has clearances that need to be met, talking about cultured stone here, 4" to 6" above grade.
The FC panels also need clearance.
And Termites; I just sent a shipment of these critters to your neck of the woods last week so you too can have the experience :)
If you have a foam covered foundation you are to have a break in the foam for inspection. Most pest control company will not warranty against termites without this break.
A few years ago I looked at a home that had below grade foam that went up the foundation and right up the walls with no break; termites ended up in the kitchen bulkheads first. Granted this is extreme but it really showed me a weakness in our way of doing what we thought was a good practice.

[Dancing Dan]

Mark -it's certainly possible it's just a bad idea - providing a nice cozy habitat for unwanted guests. I wonder if ICF foundations have the same problem?