Commercial Project/Const. for Air Make Up Unit and Kitch Exhaust Fan

[Nickymg]

We are doing a small Commercial Project - Construction only. Has anybody had experience with the type of construction project as described below? We are quite concerned that we have underestimated the time requirements on this project and I am looking for some heads up/feedback. Never posted this way before - not sure I chose the right forum and I imagine this is not enough detail. I do not understand the project so much but if anybody can read this and has an understanding and some feedback - I will appreciate it very much.

Project as outlined:


General Project Description
Seniors Complex - based on drawings provided October 7/8, 2008

Framing & finishing of air ducts required for:
Kitchen fan exhaust
Make up air unit
Completed as per drawing specifications

Construction Details:
Kitchen fan exhaust
Framing adjust for required size of opening
Finishing as per drawing specifications
Includes all material required
Confirm accuracy of drawing regarding final dimensions

Make-up air unit
Roof entrance and framing support required to reinforce existing trusses
Framing, finishing and weight specifications required prior to project commencement

Includes:
Shingle repair to a reasonable match to existing.

Electrical:
Quote provided by 4 Star @ $6375.00 plus GST - to be discussed.

Mechanical:
Quote requested but not provided at this time October 9, 2008.
*Stainless steel lining - should be provided by Mechanical.

Quote based on 45 hours of labour for 2 Journeyman Level Carpenters. Projected start date for Construction portion of project October 22, 2008. Projected completion date November 1, 2008.


We declined the opportunity to be GC on this project and are leaving the contracting to the Food Service Consultant - long story short our subs were slow to the draw on providing quotes and with this unfamiliar territory we wanted to stay focused on our Construction and other residential projects. All the same this FSC contact is an excellent contact should we do a good job and provide our services at this time.

My feeling is that this is a ****ty little job that nobody else was willing to look at but hoping it will go well for us.

thanks,
Nicole

[AZ Contractor]

It appears that someone is remodeling a kitchen in a seniors complex?

Sounds like they are installing a hood system.

After the penetration is made then there needs to be structural framing done to hold up the MAU and EF ductwork.

There are 2 ways you can do EF ductwork. One is with a chase with a two hour rating on it or with 2 layers of zero clearance fire-wrap. You may also need UL approved clean-outs on transitions depending on configuration. Depending on the duct size and truss spacing, sometimes fire-wrapping it is the only option.

There are a lot of requirements that go into a hood and its ductwork and if you aren't familiar with it that it will come back to bite you.

Basically the bid would depend on:

a)The weight of the units
b)Can the existing trusses hold the weight
c)What type of hangers and structural members are required for the framing
d)Is a shaft needed for the EF?
e)Are there any transitions that will require a clean-out.
f)How quickly can the mechanical contractor install the ductwork (probably black welded steel).
g)Does is have to be welded on the ground, then inspected for pinholes by an inspector, then erected or can it be erected then inspected?
h)etc etc etc.

PS. I've never seen a FS contractor do any structural framing.

[Nickymg]

Thanks - is an upgrade to Air Make up Unit and Kitchen Exhaust Fan only as opposed to a full kitchen remodel.

Nicole

[dave_k]

Framing & finishing of air ducts required for:
Kitchen fan exhaust
Make up air unit
Completed as per drawing specifications

Construction Details:
Kitchen fan exhaust
Framing adjust for required size of opening
Finishing as per drawing specifications
Includes all material required
Confirm accuracy of drawing regarding final dimensions

Sounds to me like they are asking you do any alterations to the structure needed to install their equipment then make good the finishes after their done. They are also asking you to "Confirm accuracy of drawing regarding final dimensions" which means you will have to review the city approved Architectural, mechanical, electrical, structural drawings and specs and compare with the suppliers shop drawings to see that they jive with each other. Then you have to go on site and make sure the dimensions are true to the drawings, mech & elec connections and services are where they are supposed to be and there is nothing obvious on inspection that's been missed on the drawings.

Make-up air unit
Roof entrance and framing support required to reinforce existing trusses
Framing, finishing and weight specifications required prior to project commencement

There should be structural drawings done for this, approved by the city and an engineer.

Includes:
Shingle repair to a reasonable match to existing.

Just what it says.

Electrical:
Quote provided by 4 Star @ $6375.00 plus GST - to be discussed.

Someone's not happy with their numbers??

Mechanical:
Quote requested but not provided at this time October 9, 2008.
*Stainless steel lining - should be provided by Mechanical.

Are you responsible for getting this quote or are they just stating fact for your information? Either the stainless steel lining is supplied by the mech contractor or it isn't. If the job starts tomorrow and no one knows for sure who is suppling this it's something that has to be clarified right away.

Quote based on 45 hours of labour for 2 Journeyman Level Carpenters.

I'm not sure about this, are they asking you to include an allowance for 2 carp @ 45 hrs each, 2 carp @ 45 hrs total, are they suggesting what you should charge or have you already quoted this quantity?

All the same this FSC contact is an excellent contact should we do a good job and provide our services at this time.

I have never done work for a FSC but I have done work for a kitchen equipment supplier and they have been good jobs. They provide turnkey service so when they sell kitchen equipment it includes the millwork around the equipment. Commercial kitchens don't sound very exciting but it can include all the millwork on the public side of the operation, serveries in hospitals and schools, bars in golf and country clubs ...

Pay close attention to city and ministry requirements and inspections. The permit drawings should be marked up I would contact the inspector and verify what they want to see. I would talk to the Nursing home manager as well to see it the provincial ministry they work under has any special requirements for inspections or something they require that has been missed on the drawings. Also check out rules on patient contact, sometimes you think you are being polite and hold the door for some old gal only to find out she's bolted once she's out the door

[Nickymg]

Sorry for the confusion and thank you for your time Dave.

This write up is what we have agreed to do that we have written up after a couple of site visits. Back 10 years ago I worked for this FSC as his office staff. He is very thorough and usually quite hands off in regards to dealing with all of the little parts of a little job (big jobs too).

He had asked us to quote on Construction, Electrical, and Mechanical. The Electrical quote took forever to get - we are dealing with a new electrician and only when the electrician got an email directly from the FSC (2 old men know each other as it were) did we get the numbers. Our Mechanical guy found himself double booked and also took longer than usual to come up with a quote. Because we are unfamiliar with Commercial work, our contacts were shwoing lack of interest and time, and also because of the hold back we decided to do the construction only. We gave the FSC the quotes and he hired the Electrical and Mechanical applied his mark up. Obviously it would have been great to make the 2+k profit but we had that uncertain feeling about coordination and the reprocussions of delays on Commercial Projects. I think our FSC contact was having a difficult time finding somebody to do this project and he encouraged us to "mark it up" and make the money off the Electrical and Mechanical but in the end its all separate suppliers and contractors with him coordinating. We just want to get in and out. Worst case senerio it takes us 2 weeks and then we can get on to our next basement.

That being said my comments to your comments:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickymg

Framing & finishing of air ducts required for:
Kitchen fan exhaust
Make up air unit
Completed as per drawing specifications

Construction Details:
Kitchen fan exhaust
Framing adjust for required size of opening
Finishing as per drawing specifications
Includes all material required
Confirm accuracy of drawing regarding final dimensions

Sounds to me like they are asking you do any alterations to the structure needed to install their equipment then make good the finishes after their done. They are also asking you to "Confirm accuracy of drawing regarding final dimensions" which means you will have to review the city approved Architectural, mechanical, electrical, structural drawings and specs and compare with the suppliers shop drawings to see that they jive with each other. Then you have to go on site and make sure the dimensions are true to the drawings, mech & elec connections and services are where they are supposed to be and there is nothing obvious on inspection that's been missed on the drawings.


FSC will be taking care of this - we just need to work off the drawings. We are asking them to confirm accuracy of drawings.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickymg
Make-up air unit
Roof entrance and framing support required to reinforce existing trusses
Framing, finishing and weight specifications required prior to project commencement

There should be structural drawings done for this, approved by the city and an engineer.

These were done by FSC.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickymg
Includes:
Shingle repair to a reasonable match to existing.

Just what it says.

Easy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickymg
Electrical:
Quote provided by 4 Star @ $6375.00 plus GST - to be discussed.

Someone's not happy with their numbers??

This was my notes on original write up where we were considering if we would mark up and manage or pass off to FSC.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickymg
Mechanical:
Quote requested but not provided at this time October 9, 2008.
*Stainless steel lining - should be provided by Mechanical.

Are you responsible for getting this quote or are they just stating fact for your information? Either the stainless steel lining is supplied by the mech contractor or it isn't. If the job starts tomorrow and no one knows for sure who is suppling this it's something that has to be clarified right away.

Again we passed off to FSC and yes Mechanical is providing ss lining but at the time I wrote this up Mechanical was hiding on his job site overbooked with angry clients (us included) and we could not get a hold of him to confirm anything.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickymg
Quote based on 45 hours of labour for 2 Journeyman Level Carpenters.

I'm not sure about this, are they asking you to include an allowance for 2 carp @ 45 hrs each, 2 carp @ 45 hrs total, are they suggesting what you should charge or have you already quoted this quantity?

We quoted this amount and also wrote this in. We had considered doing this on an hourly rate. In the end we have given a fixed price that will allow us 55 hours two guys.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickymg
All the same this FSC contact is an excellent contact should we do a good job and provide our services at this time.

I have never done work for a FSC but I have done work for a kitchen equipment supplier and they have been good jobs. They provide turnkey service so when they sell kitchen equipment it includes the millwork around the equipment. Commercial kitchens don't sound very exciting but it can include all the millwork on the public side of the operation, serveries in hospitals and schools, bars in golf and country clubs ...

Pay close attention to city and ministry requirements and inspections. The permit drawings should be marked up I would contact the inspector and verify what they want to see. I would talk to the Nursing home manager as well to see it the provincial ministry they work under has any special requirements for inspections or something they require that has been missed on the drawings. Also check out rules on patient contact, sometimes you think you are being polite and hold the door for some old gal only to find out she's bolted once she's out the door



Thanks for the feedback and thoughts. I know that our FSC contact does restaurants huge and small too. The small ones is where he could hire us. This is a job that gets us in the door. Husband is confident that he can build the thing but would rather not do the job. But with economy we want every opportunity we can get. He is a good contact in that he has been in business over 25 years.

We will consider and take your advice about talking to all of the applicable people. Double check with FSC our role on the project.

Thanks Dave - sorry about the wierd quote and comment. I could not sort out how to quote and comment back with all of your quotes and coments back.

I just hope that the project is relatively smooth and that we are not completely out to lunch on time requirements. 2 weeks is the max we could allow.

Nicole

[dave_k]

I just hope that the project is relatively smooth and that we are not completely out to lunch on time requirements. 2 weeks is the max we could allow.

Nicole

This is a nice job to get your feet wet on doing this kind of work. Even if you're out to lunch on the labor, how far wrong can you go on a small job like this. Worst case scenario you have to pay a little to get an education on this type of work. It may pay dividends down the road. Small institutional jobs kept me going in the mid 90's, they always seem to be there no matter what the economy's doing.

[Nickymg]

Thanks - I think it will go well. I will post when we are done.

Nicole