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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Lynn, Massachusetts
    Posts
    138

    Default Newell to Concrete Floor

    I need to place a solid oak newell post, on an existing stair to a concrete floor. In the past I have drilled out the floor and epoxied a threaded rod and drilled the post out to take a nut. This might not work well here as the floor is kind of uneven.

    Anybody know any better way to do this?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Near the Burgh, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    3,322

    Default Re: Newell to Concrete Floor

    What about attaching the post to the first riser and tread? This is where it should be installed.
    ~Kent~

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    southeastern South Dakota
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    1,742

    Default Re: Newell to Concrete Floor

    I cut out a pocket in the concrete about 1 to 2 inches bigger than the newel, drop the newel in the hole, then use hydraulic quick patch poured in the hole around the newel. It sets up in about 10 minutes, and the next day it's solid as concrete forever.
    Mark


    If I had a dollar for every time I heard someone say, "If I had a dollar for every time....", I'd be a rich man.

  4. #4
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    Jul 2005
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    Near the Burgh, Pennsylvania
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    3,322

    Default Re: Newell to Concrete Floor

    Quote Originally Posted by markhoni View Post
    I cut out a pocket in the concrete about 1 to 2 inches bigger than the newel, drop the newel in the hole, then use hydraulic quick patch poured in the hole around the newel. It sets up in about 10 minutes, and the next day it's solid as concrete forever.
    Setting an oak newell in concrete is a bad idea, it will eventially rot the post. Any wood that comes in contact with concrete should be preasure treated.
    ~Kent~

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Essex, MA
    Posts
    789

    Default Re: Newell to Concrete Floor

    If you have had success with epoxy and threaded rod in the past...then you should try it now. If the floor is too uneven then fill the voids with more epoxy or grind the floor smooth where the post is going.

    Is the newel connected to the stairs? If securing it to the 1st rise is not strong enough then you can always move the newel back one rise and secure it to the second riser. This will give you alot more places for blocking since there would be 14-15" of the post below the second tread and in the structure of the stairs
    http://www.putfile.com/jeffaah/images/107329

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    491

    Default Re: Newell to Concrete Floor

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffaah View Post
    If you have had success with epoxy and threaded rod in the past...then you should try it now. If the floor is too uneven then fill the voids with more epoxy or grind the floor smooth where the post is going.
    And if the floor is uneven then you can scribe and tool it to fit.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    southeastern South Dakota
    Posts
    1,742

    Default Re: Newell to Concrete Floor

    Quote Originally Posted by Kent Brobeck View Post
    Setting an oak newell in concrete is a bad idea, it will eventially rot the post. Any wood that comes in contact with concrete should be preasure treated.
    I disagree. There isn't enough moisture in the concrete in the interior of the house to do that. If you're still concerned about it, wrap the newel with some heavy poly before you drop it in. Also fasten the newel to the framing too.

    Is the newel connected to the stairs? If securing it to the 1st rise is not strong enough then you can always move the newel back one rise and secure it to the second riser. This will give you alot more places for blocking since there would be 14-15" of the post below the second tread and in the structure of the stairs
    Code doesn't allow the rail to stop that short of the run of steps, so that's not such a good idea.
    Mark


    If I had a dollar for every time I heard someone say, "If I had a dollar for every time....", I'd be a rich man.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    St. Augustine, Fl.
    Posts
    323

    Default Re: Newell to Concrete Floor

    Thought I'd throw in my $.02, well .01 with the recession that doesn't exist.
    As far as placement of bottom newel-- in my neck of the woods, the rail must go to at least first riser. A newel for a volute or similar on an over the post system can be mounted on starter ( first ) step, and is listed as an exception to std. code. Generally on a post to post system, the bottom newel is mounted to front of first riser, or front of knee wall if used, either of which makes a good, strong connection and fairly easy to install plumb.
    I'm not crazy about bolting a newel down to a concrete floor, but if you have to or Mr. Green insist on it, well times are tight. I would do it as Handy mentioned, and epoxy a Shure-Tite in and put a layer of icky-poo ( construction adhev. ) on bottom of newel, to minimize moisture absorbtion. As far as an irregular floor---- before I cut a newel to final length I alway cut a few shims off the bottom of it. Set miter saw at 1* and make a slice from zip to whatever 1* gives, than flip it over 180* and do same, this gives a 2* shim, than again and so on to make a few. Since true plumb - level- and so on, are desired but only theory. Even when mounting pin top newel on starter step I find I generally have to shim a hair, since if step is off a mere RCH, when you go up straight up, close to 40 inches that RCH growes exponentially, and the newel holding a volute, has to be as near perfect as possible.
    Roger
    The main idea is to be smarter than a piece of wood

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Essex, MA
    Posts
    789

    Default Re: Newell to Concrete Floor

    Quote Originally Posted by markhoni View Post

    Code doesn't allow the rail to stop that short of the run of steps, so that's not such a good idea.

    If the continuous rail is on the other wall then setting the newel back to the 2nd rise is a perfectly legit thing to do.

    To bo honest, I've done this many times with no other rail on the wall....per archs. drawing. So, like you said, technically the only rail stopped short of the 1st step. The BI never said a word about it
    http://www.putfile.com/jeffaah/images/107329

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Fairfax VA
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: Newell to Concrete Floor

    - before I cut a newel to final length I alway cut a few shims off the bottom of it. Set miter saw at 1* and make a slice from zip to whatever 1* gives, than flip it over 180* and do same, this gives a 2* shim, than again and so on to make a few. Since true plumb - level- and so on, are desired but only theory. Even when mounting pin top newel on starter step I find I generally have to shim a hair, since if step is off a mere RCH, when you go up straight up, close to 40 inches that RCH growes exponentially, and the newel holding a volute, has to be as near perfect as possible.
    Roger[/QUOTE]

    Thanks, great tip Rodger.



    ///also, thought RCHs were only here in Virginia, but they must be nationwide.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Essex, MA
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    789

    Default Re: Newell to Concrete Floor

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarpia View Post

    ///also, thought RCHs were only here in Virginia, but they must be nationwide.

    Nope...we have those here in MA too
    http://www.putfile.com/jeffaah/images/107329

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Lynn, Massachusetts
    Posts
    138

    Default Re: Newell to Concrete Floor

    Roger,

    Thanks for that shim idea. doubt I would have ever thought of that. You must have done a few of these in Florida with all the slab construction.
    Anyway these are simple post to post. Just replacing the railings on an existing stair. I just hate drilling that hole into the solid post, always worried the bit might break off inside. Wish I had a shopsmith.

    I agree with whoever said that times are tough, otherwise I doubt I would have even taken this job.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North/Central FL
    Posts
    784

    Default Re: Newell to Concrete Floor

    I've used epoxy, or lead shields with good results. My stair supplier sends me looonngg newel anchor dowel screws (3/8"x~12")that work either way, or on a wood subfloor. A little tip- for large newels set it off-center. I always cut a few hardwood endgrain shims, very thin and under 1 degree, for plumbing the newel perfectly. Recently, however I did a job with concrete topping over hollow-core. I went to work as usual and found a hollow core. Common sense dictates that you can't fill it with epoxy, and it wasn't deep enough for a shield. I ended up using the L-bracket style newel mounting kit with cover up trim, and lagged into the [weak] bottom step of the stringer which I reinforced with 3/4" plywood from the inside. It still wasn't sturdy enough for my liking, but it was well within the inspector's tolerances.

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