Smaller Communities and Getting Reestablised/Starting Over

[Nickymg]

This is personal stuff but as Sonny said recently sometimes you guys feel like family. Plus the industry connects us so it seems appropriate to ask here on JLC.

I am looking for feedback on those that have relocated and started over in new communities. I am also looking for feedback for those that have walked away to start over because of lifestyle choices. Further I would appreciate feedback from those that live in smaller communities.

As many of you know we have been struggling along in our business for 2 years and likely will start to see our hard work pay off this year. Part of our struggle is the underlying pull to leave the city life and live in closer to nature and country. We have been banking on enjoying the city more when we are successfull and have the money to live more comfortably here. We live in a large city and the 2nd most expensive city in the Nation to live in. There are supposed to be a lot of people with money here but even the people who appear to have money do not want to pay. Seems we are too high or too low or something most of the time. Getting better but not overly confident of our life and future here. Every guy has a truck and tools and wants to make a go at this business. It is hard to stand out when the really bad guys can get away with anything. You can be really good and really bad and people do not seem to get it. In all fairness to the public they are unsure how to weed through. We did not get into the housing market before houses rose to 400K for average bungalow. Our self employment status was a hurdle to the banks and now the housing prices are impossible. Living here and our future has been daunting.

Add to this the fact that we came to the city as a sacrifice but to make good money. 10 years later we are worse off than we were before we came. We are tired, we have no family support, we struggle financially every month, and we do not enjoy much that the city has to offer. My friends all love it here! Other people love where they live! When I read Anchorage Alaska - I sigh. Mostly I imagine my husband fishing on the weekends and myself walking through the woods and a little joy in between the demands of customers.

So this opportunity has come to be and is not firm just speculation where we could move into a community of 20 thousand and 40 -50 outlying with a strong certainty of a years worth of work starting out/walking in. We would have a year to line up the next work. As well I have a connection from way back to a very successfull and affluent member of the community who is encouraging us to come. Rates and cost of living are comparible but the area is surrounded by forest and lakes. It is a hardworking community of Oil and Gas, Agriculture, Forestry and has experienced a boom that is now simmering but stable. I know the living would be better from lifestyle perspective. The financial end looks promising.

Would we stand out more easily in a smaller community? Seems to me that if you are bad everybody would know and if you were good everybody would know. No hiding like people do in this city. TRades people are in demand everywhere.

I am so full now between juggling things here and also exploring and investigating up there. I will likely read but not put much back into this thread. So thanks in advance!

Nicole

[Bob Kovacs]

I think the difficult part would be getting ahead of the "locals" in such a small community. Especially if you don't have the financial wherewithall to survive for 6 months without work, you may be heading from bad to worse.

We moved last year from NJ down to a small town 30 miles outside of Atlanta, and even though it's one of the fastest growing areas of the country, I don't think I could have just walked into town, placed a few ads and started reeling in the work. I decided to go to work for someone else, at least for the short-term while I figure out who's who and what's what down here. You may want to think about doing the same- at least that way you could enjoy the new scenery and get settled in without the daily stress of wondering where your next paycheck will come from. I know you may not like the idea of working for someone else, but sometimes you've gotta just "do whatcha gotta do" for a while. Who knows- maybe you'll find something that works well and allows you to continue to enjoy your new surroundings- it'll definitely make it easier to buy a home if you've got steady income from an employer.

[parkwest]

If you keep doing what you are doing, what will be different?

If you have a years worth of work lined up, go for it!

[Bob Kovacs]

I missed the part about the "year's worth of work starting out". All I can say about that is don't count on it- if you can't make the move without that work, don't make the move. There's far too many things that can come up that can lead to that work falling through, and it's far too much of a risk to make a move on the promise of it, IMO.

[Stacey]

I'm in Anchorage Alaska. We are a smaller community. Every year we have plenty of new contractors show up from the States. They all think they are going to teach us hicks a thing or two, plus do some fishing and live the good life. Every fall we see them head back down after trying it out and finding it too difficult to get started again. Some do make it, but they are definitely in the minority.

It's very hard to come into a new community - big or small. But here, most every one knows everyone, or can find out who they are pretty quickly.

I would consider your area a "boom" area. Your customers are going to be people that are planning on staying long term. One of your first questions with prospective clients, is to ask how long they are planning on staying. If it's less than 5 years, they aren't your clients. We are also a "boom" state. Most people don't want to spend a lot of money. They just want to make their fortune in Alaska, and head back to Arizona or Texas and take it with them. They are not here to invest in their homes or their community.

I definitely think you might want to get more involved in your community. Chamber of Commerce, volunteer on city boards, construction associations, etc. Get your name out there. All it takes is time.

P.S. Last year I went fishing 3 times (only because we had family in town). My mountain bike is covered with dust, and my airplane doesn't have any wings. So having access to a fun place to live doesn't mean you get to enjoy it. Running & growing a business means you often won't get to have any fun even if it's in your backyard, because all you do is work. Plus in colder climates, let's face it summer is when you make most of your money, and those darn summers are just too short!

[Nickymg]

I missed the part about the "year's worth of work starting out". All I can say about that is don't count on it- if you can't make the move without that work, don't make the move. There's far too many things that can come up that can lead to that work falling through, and it's far too much of a risk to make a move on the promise of it, IMO.

Do you think anybody in would promise this work knowing that you were packing your family of 6 and moving to and expecting this work? What if a labour contract in place? Tomorrow is the expected call back. Buddy has a 2500 sq ft house to build and has purchased the home package, plans to build it himself and has been waiting to get started untill he can find a committment from somebody - can not find anybody, they are all too busy or have no skill. He says he does not care if it takes a couple of years but hopefully not 5 years. What if we put a labour contract in place - by the hour x amount of time commitement? My big thing is who would promise this if they could not follow through? Do you think?
Nicole

[Dancing Dan]

My big thing is who would promise this if they could not follow through? Do you think?

Stranger things have happened. I think Bob means you need a plan B. What if your hubby and he have a huge fight 3 weeks into the job? What if your pal loses his job? Or dies in a car accident? Or you get there and he's not ready to go?

All these things could happen on any job of course but if you're in a new place you have no fallback. You could structure it so he pays upfront for a few months worth of work, at least at the beginning, to cover your risk.

On the other hand, if you're unhappy it could be a good opportunity to make a move.

[Nickymg]

I'm in Anchorage Alaska. We are a smaller community. Every year we have plenty of new contractors show up from the States. They all think they are going to teach us hicks a thing or two, plus do some fishing and live the good life. Every fall we see them head back down after trying it out and finding it too difficult to get started again. Some do make it, but they are definitely in the minority.

It's very hard to come into a new community - big or small. But here, most every one knows everyone, or can find out who they are pretty quickly.

I would consider your area a "boom" area. Your customers are going to be people that are planning on staying long term. One of your first questions with prospective clients, is to ask how long they are planning on staying. If it's less than 5 years, they aren't your clients. We are also a "boom" state. Most people don't want to spend a lot of money. They just want to make their fortune in Alaska, and head back to Arizona or Texas and take it with them. They are not here to invest in their homes or their community.

I definitely think you might want to get more involved in your community. Chamber of Commerce, volunteer on city boards, construction associations, etc. Get your name out there. All it takes is time.

P.S. Last year I went fishing 3 times (only because we had family in town). My mountain bike is covered with dust, and my airplane doesn't have any wings. So having access to a fun place to live doesn't mean you get to enjoy it. Running & growing a business means you often won't get to have any fun even if it's in your backyard, because all you do is work. Plus in colder climates, let's face it summer is when you make most of your money, and those darn summers are just too short!

We are not mislead to think we are going to walk over a bunch of hicks and strike it rich. I was born a hick and would be happy to return a hick but what the heck is a hick anyways???

I have this desire to raise my 4 boys in a small community where they can see the stars at night. I have the desire to get back to a time where my husband can fish before he comes home from work - like he did when he lived in the small town where he lived for 10 years. I am a stay at home mom and would have plenty of time to spend at the lake but instead I go to the mall or I find friends who have access to the man made lakes that you can only go to if you are a member of the community.

Anyways I know what you are saying and appreciate your honesty and concern.

I have contacted the Chamber of Commerce in this town and they welcome me. The Realtor is looking forward to our setting up shop. The fella that does flooring only for 2 years never a down day says he turns work down all of the time and would love to see some skilled contractors in town. I talked to a fellow today who says we are in huge demand and should head up no problem - has his own outfit and may have to leave due to family problems out East. Says the only trouble is finding labourers to grow.

Anyways we are getting seriously positive feedback from the locals and even what could be considered our competition.

Its a long ways to go..........1000 K from here.

I will keep you all posted.

Nicole

[Nickymg]

Stranger things have happened. I think Bob means you need a plan B. What if your hubby and he have a huge fight 3 weeks into the job? What if your pal loses his job? Or dies in a car accident? Or you get there and he's not ready to go?

All these things could happen on any job of course but if you're in a new place you have no fallback. You could structure it so he pays upfront for a few months worth of work, at least at the beginning, to cover your risk.

On the other hand, if you're unhappy it could be a good opportunity to make a move.

Yeah yeah I know. Plan is IF the dollar per hour is agreed to husband will go for a month trial. Walk in - market hard and see the response then decide firm. Not good for staying focused here where we are and I realize we are walking a tight rope on this.

Life decisions are a PIA.

Nicole

[Allan Edwards]

What the heck is a hick anyways???

Anyone who doesn't live in San Francisco :)

[Bob Kovacs]

Do you think anybody in would promise this work knowing that you were packing your family of 6 and moving to and expecting this work? My big thing is who would promise this if they could not follow through? Do you think?

Did I forget to mention that I had a similar "deal" in place that was what prompted us to move to Atlanta instead of one of the other place we were considering? Did I also forget to mention that it fell through (and the project involved still hasn't started almost a year later)? Did I forget to mention that the person making the offer has been a good friend of mine for over 25 years? Did he do this on purpose? Of course not- but "it's business, you know- things happen".

If I hadn't thought I'd be able to be working within a few weeks making enough money to live comfortably if the deal fell apart (which it did, and I was), I never would have taken the risk. Do you have that kind of confidence that you could make things work if your deal falls through?

Oh, and the "labor contract" (you'll have to start dropping the "u" from such terms if you move to Alaska....lol) isn't worth the paper its written on unless there's some secure $$ there to back it up, so I wouldn't put any faith in that.

Lastly, do you really thing a "month of marketing hard" is enough to properly guage whether you can survive long-term in business there? What if he gets lucky and nails a one-time wonder that's not indicative of the long-term? What if it takes three months to "break in" with the locals?

I'm really not trying to piss in your Cheerios, but this is a big decision you're making, and you really need to think it through. Unfortunately, the worst time to make decisions like these is when you're not happy with your current position- you're more likely to suffer from "any port in a storm" syndrome and make a move that ends up worse than what you left.

[Bob Kovacs]

I have contacted the Chamber of Commerce in this town and they welcome me.

The CofC will enthusiastically roll out the red carpet and welcome anyone who's willing to write them a check to become a member- not exactly someone I'd base this decision on- know what I mean?

[Andrew R.]

The outer banks of North and South Carolina would be a good pace for a good carpenter wanting to get in to his own business or the eastern shore of Virginia. It offers the fishing and hunting and plenty of wooden built houses owned by northerners. The winds and salt keep repairs ongoing year round. Summertime offers great beaches, vacation atmosphere and a pinch of city life yet in the off summer season it's mostly small town living. I wouldn't last a week in Canada in construction, way too cold.

[VTNorm]

4 years ago, I moved from Boston to southern Vermont. 1 million people within 50 miles to 25k within 50 miles...

Small communities are great for all the reasons you state, but, they're also incestuous. Everybody knows everybody, everybody is related is to everybody, and everybody's cousin/brother/uncle/neighbor is a contractor. And you're the new person in town.

I had a chunk of savings to carry me over and spent A TON of time getting known around town. Oh yeah, my kids are in the their 20's & on their own so I didn't have to worry about/deal with that whole side of things. I could focus on my business. It has worked out but it wasn't painless.

Like Stacey's experience, my backpack hasn't seen a trail in 2-3 years. My new mountain bike (3 years ago) has more miles on the tune-up stand in the shop than on the trails. The kayak sees water a couple of times a year...I do throw the golf clubs in the van and play a quick 9 here & there but back in the chaos of Boston all this stuff got used alot more. Just the reality of 'taking care of business' in a small market environment.

-Norm

[rogerg]

I've lived most of my life in a lot of different small towns as small as 2200pop. so 20 thousand is a huge place for me.
I can think of 4 different times I have moved for employment and it has never worked out. It was never a problem financially because we never had any kids and we were always financially secure.
Once in a place I proceeded to look for opportunities and in most cases it worked out pretty good until we got itchy feet again. I'm an outgoing person but find it almost impossible to knock on doors so it takes me longer than usual to get rolling. Sometimes a few years. It really does take a long time for people to know you and then, even more time for that to translate that to work.
I have lived in places that most people would kill to be there and around every corner would be a Kodak moment BUT it is still only a place live.
Right now I have part of the Pacific Ocean out my front window and mountains if I turn my head a little and even though as a kid I used to fish a lot, I have only been out with friends a few times.
Fishing is NOT CHEAP and to be honest, most of the time I'm either freezing my butt off or I'm burnt to a crisp. Are you sure the "fishing life" is as ideal as you think?
Sometimes "the devil you know" is better than "the devil you don't know" so towing 4 little ones with you to an unknown place without any equity of a home seems like a recipe for disaster.
No one ever said life was fair or easy and without realizing it you probably already have done the worst bit where you already live.
As I said I have lived all over the place and in different countries and the green grass on the other side of the fence is still only grass. The trouble is that it cost a lot of money finding that out.

roger