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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
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    Friday Harbor, San Juan Island, Washington
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    13,029

    Default Locks that actually work in Knaack boxes

    I've got Knaack boxes and use Master 175D locks in them--they're combination locks with resettable tumblers so you can set your own combination. Last week I went thru and changed the combination I've been using, because we had a.... uhhhh.... change in crew structure. Anyway, somehow I blew it on one lock and could not open the damn thing no matter how many subtle variations I tried. My lead guy gave it a try after I stormed off, and reported later with a chuckle that it took him 8 seconds to break the lock open. I think he used the roto hammer but he said that if he told me he'd have to kill me. Fair enough, a craftsman has his ways, and you don't always get to watch.

    Several years ago I was using Master A1 locks in them. We had one broken open by a thief, and I could see that all he did was bring a cordless drill and drill out the brass cylinder in the lock.

    So, do you have bulletproof locks in yours? What type? I have some American padlocks for storage lockers but all that I have seen are too big for the Knaack housing. They have hardened circular key cylinders and I highly doubt you could drill them out.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    11,339

    Default Re: Locks that actually work in Knaack boxes

    Some of the circular key cylinder locks are actually really easy to break open. Kryptonite had to recall a lot of locks because someone figured out you could open them up by just jamming a bick pen into the cylinder. There were quite a few youtube videos for a while.

    I use the Masters right now, and yes, they can be opened really easily. I just look at all locks as a deterrent: if it ain't open, they might not take it. Otherwise, they'll get it somehow. A jobsite up the street they must have brought a truck with a lift gate because they loaded up 3 Knaack boxes right out of the house (cutting through the chains). At another they cut through the door in a shipping container.
    http://www.lavrans.com

    "He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp posts; for support rather than illumination." -Andrew Lang

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    1,338

    Default Re: Locks that actually work in Knaack boxes

    I only use Mul-T-lock locks. All of my locks on my job boxes, trailer, shop etc. are keyed alike. They use a special key that can only be cut by a multilock dealer. My key is registered to me and several others I have listed as able to make copies. They must present ID to have a copy made.

    The locks are non drillable and a lot more difficult to pick and are of the most secure locks made. I went all out and equipped all of my valuable stuff with them after seeing how easy it was to drill locks.

    My guys packed up and left one day early while I was talking to my electrician and put my bags in the Knaack box with my keys in my bags. I had heard of drilling lock so I borrowed a drill with a 3/8 bit from my electrician and about 10 seconds later I was pulling my keys out of my bags. I went out and spent the money on good locks shortly after.

    Here is the link: http://www.mul-t-lockusa.com/

    Kye

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
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    Friday Harbor, San Juan Island, Washington
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    Default Re: Locks that actually work in Knaack boxes

    Kye, do you know which model # you are using with Knaack boxes?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    325

    Default Re: Locks that actually work in Knaack boxes

    Job i was on for 9 months...MegaHouse. The thieves came in on a weekend
    somehow there was a considerable delay on alarms/ assuming architects/owners/owners rep might come and go. Thieves went through whole house (four floors) cut every chain, canopened all trades gangboxes
    ("Partnersaw"?). Then the alarm went off... nothing taken. The way all
    those Knaack (and other brands) boxes were peeled back... informative.
    Thieves were probably there for 45 minutes or so.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    2,184

    Default Re: Locks that actually work in Knaack boxes

    If you are concerned about a thief walking off with your Knaack box (which is an all too common occurance I hear), put it somewhere it has to be lifted to get it off site (e.g. basement) and add enough weight in the bottom with bricks, sand, or water (in a container or bladder of some sort) that four people can't lift it. Cut a piece of plywood to use as the new 'floor' in the box. Something like a Knaack 89 has enough space. You just want to make it difficult enough that they'll pick another target.

    Of course if someone wants what is in your box enough, they're going to get it if they have time and opportunity. It isn't that hard to cut a Knaack box open. If that is your concern, take an old tool, jobsite radio, or charger that doesn't work any more, hollow it out and put a GPS tracker in it. Then if your stuff disappears you can go get it.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Va.
    Posts
    3,675

    Default Re: Locks that actually work in Knaack boxes

    This thread verifies my reason for never leaving a tool on a job anymore unless it's owner occupied and locked...both.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Louisville, KY
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    3,771

    Default Re: Locks that actually work in Knaack boxes

    Locks do nothing but keep honest people honest. I'm sure you all have heard that for years also...

    I cable ladders and walk boards together everyday. I've lost keys and have never had a hard time getting them open.

    Most master locks can be opened just by beating it open with a regular hammer. If you hit the sweet spot it will just unlock and you can lock it right back together and it still works. It's easy to do after a lock has had it done once though.

    For the jobsite boxes all you need is a drill bit to drill out the keyhole.

    I'd like to try breaking into one kye's locks. Just to see if they are as good as they seem.

    One of the few good things about the job I'm working on now is it sets on 90arces or so. It's in the middle of nowhere and the homeowners are always there. All my stuff is there unlocked. Brake setup in the garage etc. Trailer in the driveway. Chop saws,compressors, guns are in a closet with a piece of plywood screwed over the door. Crime is pretty low around here to though.

    It really makes things a lot easier when you don't have to spend as much time setting up or tearing down everyday.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Seattle, WA
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    Default Re: Locks that actually work in Knaack boxes

    J.- you just reminded me of a friend's house. He was building a place of his own way up in the hills. Another house was being built about a mile down the road. He returns to site one day after the sheetrockers finished the house down the road to find his entire jobsite cleaned out. Everything from tools (from unisaw down to wire strippers) to lumber package, plumbing, electrical, even clothing & kitchen supplies. He figures at least 2 box trucks. Aargh.

    Ah, I've only lost 1.5k to 2k this last year to the bums. I guess that ain't bad?
    http://www.lavrans.com

    "He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp posts; for support rather than illumination." -Andrew Lang

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
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    Friday Harbor, San Juan Island, Washington
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    Default Re: Locks that actually work in Knaack boxes

    I am fully aware that these boxes can all be opened with a cordless jigsaw or sawzall, because I once opened one of my own that way, in fact that one still has a plywood floor. These boxes are to prevent low-end thieves from just walking off with stuff, and to keep things organized and out of the rain when the lids are closed.

    What I'm looking for are locks that can't be broken in 8 seconds with a hammer. It's a big step from there to can-opening a box with a saw, which makes a lot of noise and would likely be detected by neighbors on most of my jobsites.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    1,338

    Default Re: Locks that actually work in Knaack boxes

    Quote Originally Posted by David Meiland View Post
    Kye, do you know which model # you are using with Knaack boxes?
    I believe they are the number 8 c series on my Knaack boxes: http://www.mul-t-lock-online.com/cse...ckle-p-33.html


    I use the number 13 c series with the shackle protector on my shop building and on my chains for for chaining jobboxes, ladders, etc on high risk jobsites:
    http://www.mul-t-lock-online.com/cse...ctor-p-72.html

    Here is the chain I use:
    http://www.bikesax.com/Merchant2/mer...y_Code=SEC-CHA

    I use the mulTlock hockey puck style T series locks on my trailer: http://www.mul-t-lock-online.com/tr1...lock-p-43.html

    with these hasp gaurds around them:
    http://www.bikesax.com/Merchant2/mer...y_Code=PAD-HSP

    I bought all of my locks locally and paid a lot more than they are listed on multlock online, and bought the 14mm chain online from lockitt.com

    Kye

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    5,890

    Default Re: Locks that actually work in Knaack boxes

    I use Best padlocks. They are expensive but they are secure from drilling, smashing and picking. Their best feature for me is the removable hourglass cores. I have my own set of high security cores with registered keys like Kye's locks. I have 2 sets of a dozen construction cores so I can core a whole jobsite keyed alike. Or I can core them to construction keying. I also have deadbolts, mortise cylinders and rim cylinders that accept hourglass cores.

    I paid about $400 for 6 padlocks cores and keys about 10 years ago, I think I got pretty good deal at that price. The construction cores, locks and cylinders were leftovers from jobs. Schlage primus and Medico provide the same level of security. I use Best only because I had a lot of their hardware left over from jobs.

    http://www.bestaccess.com/index.asp?Mode=PL_21B

    dave

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Louisville, KY
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    3,771

    Default Re: Locks that actually work in Knaack boxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Lavrans View Post
    J.- you just reminded me of a friend's house. He was building a place of his own way up in the hills. Another house was being built about a mile down the road. He returns to site one day after the sheetrockers finished the house down the road to find his entire jobsite cleaned out. Everything from tools (from unisaw down to wire strippers) to lumber package, plumbing, electrical, even clothing & kitchen supplies. He figures at least 2 box trucks. Aargh.

    Ah, I've only lost 1.5k to 2k this last year to the bums. I guess that ain't bad?

    I've lost more to the escavator running over my stuff than thieves. I honestly can't think of anything of mine that has ever been stolen tool wise. I've lost material but really can't think of any tools/ladders/equipment that has been stolen.

    My stuff is so old and abused anyway they honestly would be doing me a favor. That's what we laugh about all day at least. Or it would be god's way of saying not to install siding anymore. It's all in good shape and looks clean visually. Just the aluminum ladders and walk boards have been used so much there's a lot of flex and bounce to them. There's some spots on the rungs where they have almost been worn through from sliding up and down so many times.

    I just bought an entire set of equipment that has been barely used dirt cheap. It came with a 14ft haulmark trailer and it's all stored in there right now in my driveway. I'm not trying to get my other stuff stolen but it's all in pretty bad shape. It needs to be taken the scrapyard honestly.

    I used to spend 30 mins a day unlocking and locking stuff up so it does help alot with production.
    Last edited by J.Buesking; 12-09-2007 at 01:41 PM.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Friday Harbor, San Juan Island, Washington
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    13,029

    Default Re: Locks that actually work in Knaack boxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Kye GC View Post
    I believe they are the number 8 c series on my Knaack boxes:
    Thanks Kye. I was looking at that site last night and the measurements of the C8 are somewhat different than the Master I have sitting on my desk, but they may still fit.

    Dave K, you sound like you're way ahead of most of us in terms of locking hardware. I assume that commercial jobs require it. I'm hoping that $20/lock will cover it, as I need about 8 of them.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    SF Bay Area
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    1,338

    Default Re: Locks that actually work in Knaack boxes

    Quote Originally Posted by David Meiland View Post
    Thanks Kye. I was looking at that site last night and the measurements of the C8 are somewhat different than the Master I have sitting on my desk, but they may still fit.

    Dave K, you sound like you're way ahead of most of us in terms of locking hardware. I assume that commercial jobs require it. I'm hoping that $20/lock will cover it, as I need about 8 of them.

    I've got them in two of the newer type Knaack boxes with the single lock and the slidebolt and they fit fine. When I bought the locks they said sometimes you have to file a hair off of the lock box area if the welds are bad on the jobbox but I didn't have to.

    I'll check tomorrow to make sure they are the #8.

    Kye

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