Wire nuts and proper connections revisited

[goldstar]

Sorry to dig up old trash again but that long and drawn out discussion on receptacle stabs had me thinking about proper connections in general. Many manufacturers will state in their instructions that pre-twisting is not necessary. So, here's my question : Would you follow the manufacturer's advice and splice say 3 # 14 AWG wires under one yellow wire nut or would you pre-twist the wires and give your customer an added advantage and a better possibility that the connection will not come apart or would you just go ahead and make the splice according to the suggestion that is UL approved ?

Before you post your answer think about splicing the neutrals in a multi-wire branch circuit.

[Speedy Petey]

The whole premise of not pre-twisting is that the wires get twisted in the wire nut. After the splice is made the wires should look as if they had been pre-twisted.
As we all know, in the real world this is RARELY, if ever, the case.

I am a die hard pre-twister and will NOT change.

[Kgphoto]

I like the wire nuts with the Phillips recess built into the top so you can use your screw gun to spin them.

Failing having those, I use a wire nut twister, especially when there are a lot to do so I can save wear and tear on my wrists.

[jwelectric]

Just as with the back stab if it is done properly the result will be the same.

Take notice that I didn't say how I made my installation only that when done properly............

[frenchie]

That was funny.

So, how do you do your installations?

[jwelectric]

Watch out for left handed electricians!

Now that was funny for sure lol lol lol

[David Meiland]

Try twisting the wires left handed counterclockwise, and then screw on a wire nut.

I can't, I'm not a licensed electrician. You'll have to tell us what happens.

[George Roberts]

David Meiland ---

:) :) :)

[bkerley]

I'm left handed and I twist my nuts the same way as the right handed guys. Y'all are just being discriminatory now.

[tinner666]

Electrical inspector fussed at me about pretwisting. So he pulled numerous connections and finally said I had done them all correctly, but he still thought I should have let the nut do the twisting. Go figure.

[edlee120]

You guys don't solder all your splices? What, are you nuts?

[mdshunk]

I'm not going to answer the original question, because it's one of those nonsense questions like "ground up or down" that I get tired of answering.

Instead, I'll just comment that the 2-piece, setscrew type wire nuts are still available from Ideal Industries. If they didn't take so long to install, I might use them. I think they provide a superior and long lasting connection. Has a brass sleeve with a set screw in it to clamp the wires, then you screw an insulating shell over top of the brass piece.

http://www.idealindustries.com/Produ...ize/1FS061.jpg

[Cheyenps]

Instead, I'll just comment that the 2-piece, setscrew type wire nuts are still available from Ideal Industries.

I can't imagine anything more tedious than doing a whole building with those wire nuts.

Have you tried the Ideal Twisters? The tan ones/gray ones? I like 'em, have had 0 problems with them and I don't pre-twist.

Seems to me the only time you need to pre-twist if is for some reason you have only Scotchlock wirenuts available, and even then I'd make a run to the wholesale house first.

[goldstar]

Thanks for all the replies. I didn't mean to dredge up old mud but I just wanted to get a general consensus.

Just as with the back stab if it is done properly the result will be the same.

This is not about back-stabs. We've beaten that horse to death and we all know where you stand on that issue. Now, done right by who ? We can't assume that these splices are being made by perfect electricians like Mike Whitt whose splices can't possibly come apart. The US isn't full of Mike Whitt's who do everything properly all the time. All some apprentice or novice or Home Depot DYIer has to do is read the instructions on the box once and off he goes never pre-twisting any splices and thinking he's doing everything right. Why would you not pre-twist when making up a multi-wire branch circuit ? Would you feel confident and take the manufacturer's suggestion on the outside chance that maybe, just maybe that splice could come apart and cause irreparable damage to appliances in his home. If the splice just happened to come apart what would you say to your customer - OOPS - sorry ? Why wouldn't you take the extra time and give your customer the benefit of the doubt (just like in back-stabbing receptacles) and not take the manufacturer's word that pre-twisting is not necessary ? At what point would you consider pre-twisting ? 4 wires ? 5 wires, 6 wires ? Keep using a bigger wire nut and it doesn't matter ?

Take notice that I didn't say how I made my installation only that when done properly............

I knew I could count on you to take the political way out of answering this question.

I'm not going to answer the original question, because it's one of those nonsense questions like "ground up or down" that I get tired of answering.

That's OK Marc. Just trying to get a feel for whether quality out weighs quantity. In your case and with those connectors you'll be on the job a lot longer than most.

Unless I'm splicing stranded conductors I pre-twist all splices (and clockwise Joe). That doesn't make me a better electrician than anyone else. It is my perception that a pre-twisted splice makes a better connection with the wire nut on than one that is not pre-twisted. But, then again, I'm far from perfect.

[mdshunk]

I pretwist, because my wrist won't handle twisting on a wirenut enough times to make a similar connection. Pretwisting with the nine's takes a lot of the labor out of installing the wirenut.