Ipe t&g porch flooring

[Greg Di]

What is the preferred method of attaching tongue and groove ipe on a porch floor.

The existing floor is the original t&g pine and the HO wants to replace with Ipe. I'm going to try to reuse the framing, but it looks dicey from what I can see without doing any demo.

I'm hoping I don't hear "predrill and screw" from the peanut gallery.

[cldevelopmentllc]

One product is the Ipe Clip. www.ipeclip.com.

Don't nail it and dont screw it without predrilling.

Sincerely,
the peanut gallery

Chris G.

[smtitmas]

"Pre drill and screw"
"Pre drill and screw"
"Pre drill and screw"
"Pre drill and screw"
"Pre drill and screw"
"Pre drill and screw"
"Pre drill and screw"
"Pre drill and screw"... all the way to the bank.

[smtitmas]

One product is the Ipe Clip. www.ipeclip.com.

Don't nail it and dont screw it without predrilling.

Sincerely,
the peanut gallery

Chris G.

I think the ipeclip is for dimentional lumber only and not for TnG milled boards. The clip needs two matching slots for it to work.

[Greg Di]

I think the ipeclip is for dimentional lumber only and not for TnG milled boards. The clip needs two matching slots for it to work.

Yep. I have $650 worth of Ipe clips in my trailer at the moment from another project I didn't use them on. They are only for 5/4 grooved boards and they leave a 1/8" gap.

So I guess the consensus is predrill on an angle and toe screw, huh...

[smtitmas]

Or you can use the hidden screw strip. I forget the brand name but it works good but requries extra time. I guess 'Ipe' is short for 'labor intensive'.

[butcher]

If you dont want to pre-drill and screw you could always glue it down, but it might not work that well.

[m beezo]

Cannot use a hardwood flooring nailer? I know from reading that the stuff is hard but is it worse than say hickory or oak? I can buy stainless steel nails for my Bostich flooring nailer and use it to install 3/4 inch flooring. I know there is a way to adjust it for other types of flooring but it may be for the thinner flooring instead of the thicker flooring.

I would hate to think about all that predrilling and screwing but that is what they make kneepads and helpers for. I reacall you talking about breaking off drill bits on your last job. If you have to go the predrill route you better plan on getting a supply of drill bits also.

[smtitmas]

Cannot use a hardwood flooring nailer? I know from reading that the stuff is hard but is it worse than say hickory or oak? I can buy stainless steel nails for my Bostich flooring nailer and use it to install 3/4 inch flooring. I know there is a way to adjust it for other types of flooring but it may be for the thinner flooring instead of the thicker flooring.

I would hate to think about all that predrilling and screwing but that is what they make kneepads and helpers for. I reacall you talking about breaking off drill bits on your last job. If you have to go the predrill route you better plan on getting a supply of drill bits also.

I dont think that using a flooring nailer will provide sufficient nailing because there is no sub floor for the nails to attach to but only floor joists every 16"or 24".
Greg, hopefully you bid the job taking into account that the labor for an Ipe deck is 2x or 3x the cost than standard decking or you are working T&M, but either way I would stick with some type of screw fastening method. Your three options would be
1.predrill with face screws(one per joist/board @ the groove side,
2.predrill with edge screws @ the tougue,
3.use hidden fastener clips that mount on side of joist and screw into bottom of deck board. Predrilling might not be needed if you experiment with different types of exterior screws that have 'type 17 ' tip. I've used stainless steel before on composite and PT with out predrilling but Ipe might be harder and require a predrill. If your going the face drill method use a Smart Bit . Buy plenty for when they break or dull but they will make the process quick and consistant.
http://www.smart-bit.com/

[James Eggert]

Greg
I also have used ss cleat nails in a flooring gun for T&G. One of the main reasons ss was specified was the mfg explained that some of the galv cleat nails were rough and caused damage to the tongues!

I would try a couple boards on a quick sample section of 2x4 joists on the garage floor and see how it works....BEFORE buying the ss cleat nails. Those suckers are expensive!!

[m beezo]

simitas,
I am not sure why you think the boards could not be attached to the joists only. That is the only way I have seen any porches built. Here in St Louis, the main wood flooring used is 3/4 x 3 tounge and groove fir flooring. This is always attached directly to the joist and I have seen them attached to the joists at both at 16 and 24 centers. The 16 centers are certianly a stiffer floor but the 24 has been done also.

I use the stainless steel cleats and pay about $80 for a box of 5000 I think. I know it was $80 a box but the box may have been a few less nails. Not cheap but wehn looking for a long term ail the only way to go.

[smtitmas]

simitas,
I am not sure why you think the boards could not be attached to the joists only. That is the only way I have seen any porches built. Here in St Louis, the main wood flooring used is 3/4 x 3 tounge and groove fir flooring. This is always attached directly to the joist and I have seen them attached to the joists at both at 16 and 24 centers. The 16 centers are certianly a stiffer floor but the 24 has been done also.

I use the stainless steel cleats and pay about $80 for a box of 5000 I think. I know it was $80 a box but the box may have been a few less nails. Not cheap but wehn looking for a long term ail the only way to go.

I was refering to the use of a flooring nailer. I cant imagine that 1 nail every 16" or 24" would have as much holding power as a screw at the same spacing.

[m beezo]

smitty,
I am not for sure about the holding power of either fastener. The cleats I use are what I would call slightly barbed. If you ever have to pull one out it is next to impossible. And with either type of fastener, if you are going thru the tounge of the board, there is only a little wood holding the board down. What is a tounge-maybe 3/8 or 1/4 inch thick? I would think the screws, even predrilled would have a chance of pulling the tounge down and out of alignment or splitting off the tounge more than the nailer. I think of how a screw will split something when you give it that final twist where a nail goes in so fast that it does not seem to split the board.

Also I have not heard what type of screw would you use? I would be afraid that the head of the screw would interfer with the next board being seated on the groove like it should be. Would you be using a finish head screw?

[smtitmas]

smitty,
I am not for sure about the holding power of either fastener. The cleats I use are what I would call slightly barbed. If you ever have to pull one out it is next to impossible. And with either type of fastener, if you are going thru the tounge of the board, there is only a little wood holding the board down. What is a tounge-maybe 3/8 or 1/4 inch thick? I would think the screws, even predrilled would have a chance of pulling the tounge down and out of alignment or splitting off the tounge more than the nailer. I think of how a screw will split something when you give it that final twist where a nail goes in so fast that it does not seem to split the board.

Also I have not heard what type of screw would you use? I would be afraid that the head of the screw would interfer with the next board being seated on the groove like it should be. Would you be using a finish head screw?

Installing TnG Ipe deck boards I'd prefer to use the underside screw strip and use type 17 SS but if that was not an option I'd go with predrilled SS trim head toe screws at the tongue. I agree with the screw being a bit more prone to splitting if over-driven and with the 'set it and forget it' method of an auto nailer but I'm partial to the versitality of using screws.

[David Meiland]

Greg, for an ipe T&G deck like that I wonder if you could use Shadoe Track. You'd still have to predrill and screw but at least you wouldn't have all the hassles of trying to get trimhead toescrews in there without splitting off the tongues. As you know ipe is completely resistant to any fastener driving so you would need a predrill that countersunk for the trimhead too, which I doubt exists. With the Shadoe Track you could snug up the boards, several at a time, clamp them in place, then go underneath with a drill and a driver and do the deed.

Never done T&G ipe, but I've installed 3/4 x 3-1/2 fir T&G over joists at 12" and 16" centers, using both toe-screws and SS cleats. The cleats are dramatically better--they hold just fine, they do not split the tongue off, and hey, they come out of a gun. Last year we did a 900SF deck that we found was framed at 24" OC when we stripped the plywood off of it, and I felt like that would overspan the fir and be inadequate nailing, so we added joists between the existing. Rock solid.

The SS cleats are a major expense, in my case about $350 for that 900SF. Got 'em from Manasquan.

I suppose another alternative is a 3/8" forstner hole, a 3/16" predrill, a deck screw, an ipe plug glued in, and then sand the whole thing. Ugh.

http://www.shadoetrack.com/