Safety Talk

[denboy1]

I'd like your input/comments/links for a safety talk suited for younguns.

A boy scout volunteered to spearhead the building of a new garage for our chuch as part of his eagle scout requirements. We're involving the youth group with much supervision in the process.

The garage is small, about 20x24 and we'll have pros get the footings & slab in. Air nailers are staying home and I'm reluctant to put kids on the roof. So..basic framing and supervised vinyl siding.

Guessing about a dozen kids.

Dennis

[Allen42ACJ]

Can you talk to a Shop teacher?They might have more information for you..

Most kids are pretty smart and as long as you show them the right way and to use safety..
Good luck

[frenchie]

I used to run canoe trips with youngun's... all I can say is, try to keep your adults-to-youngun's ratio as high as you possibly can.

You mentioned "much supervision", so you're probably okay - but it just can't be emphasized enough. The adults don't have to know carpentry, just help ride herd. Figure 3 or 4, besides you, for a dozen eager kids.

Safety talk can be pretty basic - the main thing is to be a consistent hardass about it once things get underway.

[Toolwhore]

Just how old are these kids? Maybe throw a little "safe tool use" clinic, a couple days before the project starts. That way you could gage their aptitudes a little, and would be better able to decide how far you can go with regards to power/hand tools. I couldn't imagine having kids so young, that introducing them to power tools under supervision, would be out of the question, on a project like that. I'm all for safety, but this should be an adventure for them. Don't baby them too much, or they'll loose interest and focus, and that can be very unsafe.

[denboy1]

Thanks for the advice. I'm guessing the kids will be in the 12-18yo age group. They're probably ready to use some saws but we'll be doing mostly hammer work and some lifting. Orientation class is a good idea and I could do it during sunday school (when the younguns play pool).

No shop teachers around here - all college prep when you're next to U of M.

[Kgphoto]

Do not let them use skill saws, at all. If they are 18 and have had experience in the trade, then OK.

Use of the nail gun only under the direct, 1 on 1 supervision, of an adult whose only job is to watch that action. Remove the gun from service while it is not being used and disconnect the hose.

Emphasize team work. Show how to lift a wall, Brace, plum and line. etc.

Give everyone a box of 8 d's or 16 d's and let them pound the whole box into a 4x4. Do this before the build day. Have them wrap the proximal joint of the index finger on their hammer hand with electrical tape to avoid blisters.

Make sure they have good hammers. No 16oz from their dad's tool box. Some small boned kids(weak) may need the 16 oz because they can't control anything else. Have them do the least hammering or keep them to roofing nails. I would let them roof, but with lots of safety stuff in place. That is where the glamor work is. Up high.

[FramerT]

I would let them roof, but with lots of safety stuff in place. That is where the glamor work is. Up high.

Yep, safety is a priority here. Double or T-shaped toe-boards depending on the roof pitch.A 9-10ft fall could kill. It's better to let a pc.of plywood hit the ground if they lose their balance than trying to save it.

[Toolwhore]

Do not let them use skill saws, at all. If they are 18 and have had experience in the trade, then OK.

Use of the nail gun only under the direct, 1 on 1 supervision, of an adult whose only job is to watch that action. Remove the gun from service while it is not being used and disconnect the hose.
Emphasize team work. Show how to lift a wall, Brace, plum and line. etc.
Give everyone a box of 8 d's or 16 d's and let them pound the whole box into a 4x4. Do this before the build day. Have them wrap the proximal joint of the index finger on their hammer hand with electrical tape to avoid blisters.
Make sure they have good hammers. No 16oz from their dad's tool box. Some small boned kids(weak) may need the 16 oz because they can't control anything else. Have them do the least hammering or keep them to roofing nails. I would let them roof, but with lots of safety stuff in place. That is where the glamor work is. Up high.

C'mon kg! These are young adults we're talking about here. You can't coddle them. Supervising for the sake of safety is one thing, but your bordering on holding their hands if they have to go pee-pee. Criminy! It's no wonder the kids these days can't work. You won't teach 'em to.

[denboy1]

I'll REALLY have to gauge their experiences before letting them go on roofing. Plans are still being worked out by the eagle scout but last I saw it was an 8/12, trussed. Some have "mountain top" experience where they go into the mountains and repair homes.

I'm either pessimistic or I hope ignorant of their talents and am looking forward to being pleasantly surprised. They've got to start somewhere.

I figure they have energy to burn...nothing like hand driving nails all day!

[Kgphoto]

Toolwhore,

12 is not an adult. 12 who have never used tools is greatly different than 12 who builds with his dad. Obviously it depends on the experience of the participants, but from the description it didn't sound like there was any.

I work with Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts and some I wouldn't trust to hold a bucket.

My daughter is very comfortable above or below a house. She has rappelled down a 45 degree pitch nailing down roofing. I always thought kids were indestructible. My 9 year old son just broke his leg tipping over a stack of plywood in a shed where he wasn't supposed to be. The screams, the crooked leg and hours at the emergency ward have made me more cautious.

I have met some real unaware 18 year olds and older. A skill 77 saw has a lot of torque and kickback. It could really surprise someone and the damage would be too great for an oppps!

With the sue happy climate prevalent and the lack of personal responsibility and anger management issues I see in kids today, I don't think it is too much to watch them with dangerous tools. A nail gun or a saw is a hard thing to stop once it goes off.

This is a one day or weekend project that is being discussed. If this was a 10-20 week class, then sure, by the end, let em rip, as long as they have proven themselves.

I feel pretty confident I could protect them on a roof with the proper safety equipment. A lot of the scouts here do rock climbing and rappelling so they are familiar with being tied off.

[Toolwhore]

I never said just cut 'em loose. Did ya miss the part where I suggested a tool safety clinic, so as to gage their abilities? You make it sound like I was going to force the smallest, weakest kid to run a chainsaw while hanging upside down from the ridge. I'm saying if they want to participate in using the power tools, and show a little ability and safety awareness when instructed, then they should (under supervision) be allowed to.

BTW - So did ya give the kid a good beatin', for being where he wasn't 'spose to be, or was there more coddlin' going on?

Just kidding Kirk.

[Bill Robinson]

Insurance, I would be concerned with the insurance and liability.

On power cutting tools, if they can hold it comfortably they can learn to use it.

I think there are more accidents with the pros who take the power for granted.

You should be able to tell if they are comfortable with it by handing a saw to them, unplugged, and see how they react or respond.
I have taught HS kids from 15-18 and they all still have their fingers.
In the beginning I was reluctant to put them on the circ saws.
At the end of the day they have to get something out of it so they will come back.

Bill R

[Phil H]

That sounds like a great project for the kids and the church. But one word of caution. Try to get a feel for the adults abilities. If the adults supervising don't work in the trades, you may need to keep an eye on them too. Some well meaning volunteers over-estimate there abilities. A guy that fixed a picket fence once upon a time, may think he knows framing. Beware of the over-zealous do-it-yourselfer.

[semple]

sounds like fun i bet you will have a good time

[frenchie]

As far as kids and power tools go, it all depends on the kids - consider this for perspective: I was on a rifle team at 13; by the time i turned 16, I was supervising range practice for the team, without any direct adult supervision.