Joining Casing to door jams

[ownerslashjanitor]

do a lot of case conversions for trim upgrades from 356 to RB-3. Are most of you guys stapling casing to jams? If not what technique are you using?

If so what's the stapler of choice? I'm trying to identify some quality issues we have and casing not joining tightly is at the top of the list.

[James Eggert]

a stapler for casing to me means cheap off the rack preapplied. I can't think of a time I ever saw a field applied casing via stapler.

brad gun, 16 or 15g trimmers, each has it's merits, and each carpenter has his own likes!

[kreg McMahon]

I agree with james. usually if the case is thin at the door jamb then 18 might be better, then a small bead of caulk run down the seam and then painted should be fine.

[SteveA]

I do a lot of trim upgrades, also. Our guys always fasten casing to the jambs and framing with 18 ga pins. If your door jamb is properly shimmed to the framing (nice, solid installation), 18 ga pins for the casing is adequate. A stapler is not my first choice for fastening casing. Especially not for stain grade.

If your trim is not joining tightly to either the jamb, the miter, or the wall, this is a fitting and adjustment issue you need to "mess with" to make it right. You can't just yank off the old stuff and pound on the new.

There's all sorts of tricks to make things work right: Cutting a very slight compound miter on the miter cuts to make the face of the casing miter cuts fit tight, "backing out" the back side of the casing to make it fit tight to both to jamb and wall, and so forth. A razor-sharp chisel, block plane, and rabbet plane makes this fitting work much easier.

[ownerslashjanitor]

I'm about to order Gary's videos and we're just going to have an education day at the shop. See one, Hear one, Do one. Enough Army left in me to do some good old fashioned Train the Trainer.

I think our situation is more about patience and just plain old going about things the right way. We struggle between the production budget here in the Southeast and the Lack of real knowledge about how to turn out a true Quality Custom product.

The first step to getting help is to be honest about where you find yourself.

[littlebluetruck]

Don't be afraid to pound sheetrock.

[whiskytangofoxtrot]

I'm trying to identify some quality issues we have and casing not joining tightly is at the top of the list.

I think the nut on the side of the staple gun is probably a little loose.

[ownerslashjanitor]

If you can't laugh at yourself who can you laugh at? LOL. That's what happens when a Builder actual starts using his own tools.

[hdrider_chgo]

do a lot of case conversions for trim upgrades from 356 to RB-3. Are most of you guys stapling casing to jams? If not what technique are you using?

If so what's the stapler of choice? I'm trying to identify some quality issues we have and casing not joining tightly is at the top of the list.

I've never heard of using a stapler, and it sounds like a bad idea. It would never be acceptable on stain grade and even on paint grade, more area to fill. Plus, what happens to the occasional staple that doesn't set? Are you going to try to pound the staple down with a nail set?

We fasten casing to jambs with 18 gauge, and casing to framing with 16 gauge. The fastening tool will not make casing fit tight, only a carpenter can do that.

What is "356" and "RB-3"?

[ownerslashjanitor]

356 is standard casing and RB-3 is the larger 3 rib (thus RB-3) custom style casing. I use Williams brothers and Plymart and they both use these names for these moldings. Maybe a regional thing or just have similar suppliers.

I havn't used staples but that's why I'm asking. When you have a crew of guys and you can't be there with them all day you have to find fool proof easy to do solutions. It's a tough balance between quality and timeliness. Some of you will know what I mean and some won't, that's o.k. too.

And I would have to disagree. Fasteners can and do make a tremendous difference. Maybe staples aren't the best answer and absolutely the carpenter makes the biggest difference but try shooting a ring shank nail versus a bright common framing nail and you'll see how tightly a bowed 2x will pull down. Of course that's a framing forum discussion.

95% of the work we do around here is paint grade. Rarely will the regular cash flow jobs get into stain grade, which is what this thread is directed towards, production trim.

Appreciate the feedback though, getting input from the 20 year guys is what makes things better. I just ask that open minds be maintained and also keep in mind that my company does it all from the from the footers up "In House". It's hard to get as good at finish and trim when yesterday you were cutting rafter tails and today you're putting in 7 1/4" crown. You just have to do the best you can and try to always improve.

[littlebluetruck]

The other problem with staples is that you would be obliged to orient the stapler at 90 degrees to the casing to allow both legs of the fastener to penetrate the jamb. This is easy enough to do at the head, but awkward at best when working down the legs.

I agree: stick with an 18 gauge bradder for the jamb side of the casing, and break out the 15 or 16 if you need that little extra "oomph". Don't use nails that are any longer than necessary and you'll have fewer shiners.

[JFRAMEBMF]

owner; i understand your situation . rafters one day crown the next,and cleaning dwall scraps the next. all while trying to balance quality w/efficency. any way i've always had good luck w/ 18g brads to "pin" the casing to the jamb and then 16g or 15g nails to the wall and like LBT said go ahead and bash in some dwall and "turn the other cheek" lol

[Amkeer]

Thats why they make a 18 gauge pinner and 15 gauge finish nailer. I use 1-3/8 at jamb and 2-2.5 at outside.

Using a stapler on casing is like taking a flat screwdriver and driving it into the wood with the grain.

[davestrim]

For years I installed the thin side of 356 casing with a BeA narrow crown upholstery stapler. The painters loved it because the earlier MDF trim didn't hunch up around the staple hole. I liked it because the BeA was waayyy more reliable than any brad gun. However, the staples won't sink in small hardwood parts, nor cabinet toe kick every time, so now I am using 18 ga. (and a never ending parade of troublesome guns).

[whiskytangofoxtrot]

Owner, this is the staple gun you need if you prefer a narrow 18ga. staple for fastening paint grade window/door casing.

http://www.toolbarn.com/cgi-bin/prod...i/senco/SKS-L/

I've used 1 1/2" staples on paint-grade (only) casing for years and they draw/hold better than the same gauge brads. Because of the 90 deg. nature of the gun, it can be an "operator" issue when fastening below the waist, but that's where you find out whether your employees care or if they are just there to nail until you hand out checks.

BTW, that gun is an oil-less design which is a very nice feature. My SKS-L was a BTH $20.00 pawn shop rescue (back in 1988) that was "refreshed" and has been bulletproof ever since.