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Why I Choose Plywood versus OSB

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  • Why I Choose Plywood versus OSB

    Here is my documentation to support plywood being superior to osb. Opposing views are welcome and I know there are OSB supporters out there, so lets see why you choose that instead.

    I got most of this information from a Georgia Pacific article on plywood versus OSB Versatility, Stiffness, Creep - edge swell.

    Since they manufactured both products at the time, I feel it is a very reliable and unbiased source. I have many other supporting articles as well, but this is the main highlights.

    Ed

    OSB swell is generally greater than in plywood due to the release of compaction stress in OSB created during the pressing of wood chips into an OSB panel. Plywood that has swollen will return to its nominal thickness as the wood dries. OSB will remain swollen to some degree after it dries because the panel will still have the higher "compaction ratio" that was present as of the date of manufacture.

    The comparison below, undertook by the APA, lists the thickness swell (in percent) using a water soak test.
    Plywood Average swell= 6% to 8% depending on thickness
    OSB Average swell= 10% to 15% depending on thickness

    Over a period of time, when subjected to high humidity or a series of dramatic wetting events, OSB is more prone to panel swell than plywood especially at the edges. Panel swell is most noticeable along the edges where it is critical for flooring and roof sheathing to match-up as not to show through the flooring or roofing materials.

    Research done by the USDA Forest Products Laboratory (Research Paper FLP-RP-574) shows that over an extended period of time, under low constant loads and temperature, and in high-humid conditions, OSB will sag or "creep" more than plywood.

    Plywood OSB
    50% RH Fractional creep values 1.4mm 1.7mm
    85% 1.9mm 5.2mm
    Cyclic RH 50%-85% 2.0mm 4.6mm


    Long-term, plywood sags less than OSB in humid conditions. In humid areas with vented attics and crawl spaces, using plywood for roof and floor sheathing can reduce risk of sagging roofs and floors.

    APA Technical Note N375B states that plywood panel bending stiffness is 10% greater than OSB at equal joist spacing. Panel bending stiffness is the capacity to resist deflection.


    Density of plywood is 34-36 pounds per cubic foot compared to OSB at 38-42 pounds per cubic foot.
    One 23/32" 4'x 8' plywood piece would weigh approximately 67 lbs.
    One 23/32" 4'x 8' OSB piece would weigh approximately 78 lbs.

    Plywood is approximately 15% to 19% lighter than OSB. While the additional weight of OSB does not mean increased strength, it just means that it is heavier to handle on the job. In addition, OSB's higher weight means higher thermal conductivity (thus slightly less R value) than plywood.

    Plywood and OSB: Screw withdrawal or holding ability.
    Group 1 plywood, made from the strongest species of wood such as Southern Yellow Pine, holds screws better than OSB.

    Plywood and OSB: Nail withdrawal or holding ability.
    As shown in APA report T2001-3A, plywood generally has higher nail withdrawal values using plain-shank, ring-shank, and screw-shank nails, even though OSB has a higher density than plywood. The numbers below reflect dry test conditions. The numbers vary some when tested under dry to wet-redry conditions.
    Withdrawal strength (lbs/in. penetration)
    Plain Ring Screw
    5/8" Plywood Mean: 79.7 316.3 83.7
    23/32" OSB Mean: 67.6 281.5 63.9
    Nail withdrawal strength measures the force to pull the embedded nail from the nailed parts.

    After roof sheathing or sub floor panels are nailed to the framing, nails will remain in place better in plywood than OSB.

    Under severe weather testing, plywood is shown to be more impact resistant than OSB. Plywood outperforms OSB in the South Florida Building Code (Dade and Broward Counties) mandated use of the "large missile" impact test for materials used in walls and roofs.


    Plywood is more impact resistant than OSB. This provides resistance to flying objects in high wind situations. More impact resistance provides added durability against accidents caused by impact on floors, roofs, and walls on the inside and outside of the home.

    “We don't ever say that OSB is not a good product,” says Chris H. Beyer, director of marketing services for Georgia-Pacific Building Products, which makes both products. “But plywood is better. [Plywood] has performance benefits that are important, and it is more versatile, especially when you talk about flooring options.”

    In a 2003 technical paper, Georgia-Pacific stated that plywood holds up better under excessive wettings, has an all-wood surface that results in better glue adhesion, and is 15 percent lighter than OSB so it puts less stress on the floor framing system. Beyer further states that plywood is more forgiving than OSB and also helps create a quieter floor. “Tests indicate that it holds nails better, too,” Beyer adds.

    John VavRosky, structural panel marketing manager for former OSB producer Potlatch in Spokane, Wash., agrees that OSB has had some issues, such as its reputation for reacting negatively to water.

    VavRosky says, for example, OSB products have better resins and painted edges to resist swelling.

    A June 2004 Georgia-Pacific survey concluded that 77 percent of the homeowners it surveyed prefer plywood over OSB.

    PRICE IS RIGHT
    In the end, none of that really matters: “The bottom line is that builders are going to use what's readily available and cost competitive,” VavRosky says. And price is one area where OSB has historically beaten plywood. . Bill Langford at Jim Walters Homes in Tampa, Fla., seems to agree with that assessment. Langford says the company uses plywood sometimes but primarily uses OSB for the walls and roof. “Cost is the main reason,” he says. “Occasionally we have to replace the product due to rain, but we deal with it.”

    Ed
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  • #2
    Re: Why I Choose Plywood versus OSB

    Ed:

    I've been preaching the evils of OSB here for the last several years, nobody wants to listen, it even came up in the infamous Emma Shinn thread where she preached "Cost does not create value", and was cited as a way to save $2 a sheet. Now the pressure is on and both Weyerhaeuser and GP have sold their OSB divisions to Flakeboard in Canada (LP says they are hanging in with it), trying to escape the long arm of American state law. It's very expensive to sue a foreign corporation for defective products.
    "The only communists left in the world are in American Universities."

    --Mikhail Gorbachev

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    • #3
      Re: Why I Choose Plywood versus OSB

      Good seeing you back over here Dick. I basically posted this same topic in the other forum you have posted in elsewhere.

      I am not familiar with the Emma Shinn thread, but I will be after I type this.

      I also have articles which support the heresy of OSB being the product of choice, but you can see through the BS that it is internal propaganda PR required for damage control.

      The only positive side, if someone wants to view it that way, is the 25 % or more savings. As the builder from Florida I mentioned previously said,“Cost is the main reason,” he says. “Occasionally we have to replace the product due to rain....."

      What really burns me, is that many other contractors use the term "plywood" in their write-ups and then wind up using crap-board instead. To a very minor splitting hairs extent, they can state that the APA, (I know, formerly named), classifies both products as testing similarly or as equals. I still classify that as a bait and switch. Where do they get their funding dollars from I wonder?

      Ed
      Stay tuned for a very important message from our sponsor.
      http://www.rightwayroofingcompany.com/
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      • #4
        Re: Why I Choose Plywood versus OSB

        Wow Dick,

        I just got back from the Emma thread, and only got 2 pages into it. I shall return! When my eyes stop bugging out and my pain meds kick in again tomorrow. (Just had major oral surgery with 2 skin grafts from a tooth pulled 3 weeks ago which left an open socket through the gum to the sinus cavity. OUCH!)

        One other note regarding OSB. Oh yes, they have found a solution for the edge swelling due to a paint applied waxy surfacing on the perimeter edges. Bull! I guess that may be valid if an installer never had to cut any of the sheets during the install.

        BTW, from earlier, "Long-term, plywood sags less than OSB in humid conditions. In humid areas with vented attics and crawl spaces, using plywood for roof and floor sheathing can reduce risk of sagging roofs and floors." Plywood can withstand repetitive moist and drying cycles while regaining near its original dimensions, load bearing capabilities, and fastener pull out resistance, where OSB does not revive itself as adequately.

        Ed
        Stay tuned for a very important message from our sponsor.
        http://www.rightwayroofingcompany.com/
        www.RightWayRoofingCompany.com

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        • #5
          Re: Why I Choose Plywood versus OSB

          Originally posted by Dick Seibert View Post
          The infamous Emma Shinn thread where she preached "Cost does not create value",
          Dick:

          Since I originally brought up Emma Shinn’s statement, I might point out that you grossly misinterpreted and misrepresented what she meant by her “cost does not create value” point. And I think she explained it over and over in that thread but for some reason you failed to acknowledge that. In fact I just heard her repeat it in person last week at a very well delivered talk to hundreds of builders. You basically took the statement out of context.

          It does not mean and never means that you simply choose a product based on price, it does not mean that you always choose the cheapest product or cheapest labor, and it certainly never means that you use a marginal technique or product.

          What it means is that in determining what products you offer up to a particular slice of the market, you never give a buyer more than they are willing to or capable of paying for. If they don’t understand and see and acknowledge the value of what you are offering, then you are wasting money.
          ============================================

          [url=http://twitter.com/Allan_Edwards]Twitter[/url]

          [url=http://houzz.com/pro/allan]Houzz[/url]

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          • #6
            Re: Why I Choose Plywood versus OSB

            Allan, I am not disagreeing with you but I would have a hard time getting most homeowners to grasp the differences re OSB vs. plywood. I think plywood is a better product because I think it's less susceptible to moisture damage. A lot of owners would say "OSB is in widespread use, it must be OK" and when they are trying to shave pennies off of a project that $2 per sheet might look good. I would not be able to use their acceptance of a product, or lack thereof, as a determiner of what we use when it comes to these more subtle technical issues, of which there seem to be thousands. In this example of ply v. OSB I think cost does create value, and the HO may have a hard time accepting that. Of course, if they only think in terms of staying in the house for 3 years and then selling, the value may not be to them. That's a tough one. The value is to whoever owns the house long term, not necessarily the person who forked out for the more expensive sheet goods.

            Advantech might be better than plywood, because of the surface treatment it has. Lstiburek recently said that in a FHB article. I am leaning on my supplier to make the stuff available to me.
            Bailer Hill Construction, Inc. - Friday Harbor, WA
            Website - Facebook

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            • #7
              Re: Why I Choose Plywood versus OSB

              David,

              Could you please provide me with the additional information you mentioned. I am always looking for improvements on materials currently in use.

              "Advantech might be better than plywood, because of the surface treatment it has. Lstiburek recently said that in a FHB article."

              Also, David, per a GP survey, 77 % of consumers polled prefer CDX plywood versus OSB. I will see if I have the pertinent information when I get back into my office. While the "value" of the product is in the eye of the beholder purchasing it, it is our level of expertise that they must rely on for accepting the premise on why one product is substantially better than another.

              Ed
              Stay tuned for a very important message from our sponsor.
              http://www.rightwayroofingcompany.com/
              www.RightWayRoofingCompany.com

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              • #8
                Re: Why I Choose Plywood versus OSB

                Originally posted by David Meiland View Post
                Allan, I am not disagreeing with you but I would have a hard time getting most homeowners to grasp the differences re OSB vs. plywood.
                David, I wasn't addressing OSB vs. Plywood, just Dick's attack on Emma Shinn's observation about not giving a homeowner something they don't perceive as value and won't pay for.

                I use plywood. Instintively, I think it is better than OSB. However, if either product is exposed to water over a sustained period of time, how much longer will plywood last than OSB? Does it really matter? Both will deteriorate.
                ============================================

                [url=http://twitter.com/Allan_Edwards]Twitter[/url]

                [url=http://houzz.com/pro/allan]Houzz[/url]

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                • #9
                  Re: Why I Choose Plywood versus OSB

                  Ed, there is an article linked in this thread, first post--worth a read.

                  http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=34814
                  Bailer Hill Construction, Inc. - Friday Harbor, WA
                  Website - Facebook

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                  • #10
                    Re: Why I Choose Plywood versus OSB

                    Originally posted by Allan Edwards View Post
                    David, I wasn't addressing OSB vs. Plywood
                    I run into so many situations where more money will buy a better product. Maybe OSB vs. plywood is not the greatest example, but there are dozens or hundreds. Many times, to the owner, the difference in cost is significant and they question it. It can be virtually impossible to really nail down whether the difference in cost will be worth it. Just yesterday I was discussing VG fir vs. Hemlock for some 1x8 trim we are going to be installing. The owner is selling the house, he wants the stuff up and painted. I said, in my experience, hemlock is subject to a lot of movement and I dislike using it. However, we can install it and it may work out OK. It actually benefits me quite a bit if he will spend the extra dough for the VGF, and he decided to do so. I'm glad, but I cannot say with any certainty that he is served well financially by this decision. I do believe 100% that in ten years that trim will look a lot better, and since I am a builder that is what I care about.

                    Pretty far off topic now. I'm going to go install some ceiling lights in my shop, maybe go get a spicy pork burrito for lunch.
                    Bailer Hill Construction, Inc. - Friday Harbor, WA
                    Website - Facebook

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                    • #11
                      Re: Why I Choose Plywood versus OSB

                      Here is a link to about 6 informative article relating the pros and cons of each product.



                      http://www.sbebuilders.com/framing/plywood-osb.php

                      Ed

                      Now, I am off to check out that other link to the thread mentioned.
                      Stay tuned for a very important message from our sponsor.
                      http://www.rightwayroofingcompany.com/
                      www.RightWayRoofingCompany.com

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                      • #12
                        Re: Why I Choose Plywood versus OSB

                        The reason I bring up the infamous Emma Shinn thread is the fact that in the 5th post on that thread a young contractor I personally like, JWork, decided to downgrade to OSB based upon Emma Shinn's advice:
                        jwork101 jwork101 is offline
                        Veteran Contributor

                        Join Date: Jun 2004
                        Location: Chicago, IL
                        Posts: 733
                        Default Re: Emma: Question
                        Allan-

                        Definitely understand what you mean about the value proposition. I must say I appreciate the advice you gave me months ago (maybe it was my post...maybe it wasn't...) But I remember you're saying "Hey....we like CDX plywood, but if its 2 bucks a sheet more...and the OSB product wont squeak, tile doesn't crack & performs the same to the owner.... DONT SPEND IT!"
                        From the field failures I'm seeing that $2 a sheet is going to bankrupt many contractors, even the manufacturers are bailing out now. Another problem I am seeing is that the OSB subflooring gets so bad during construction that the builders are bringing in floor sanders and sanding them down below engineered (or prescriptive code mandated) thicknesses.

                        A word to David:

                        Be very careful when you think an owner might be selling in the near future, especially if he tells you he's going to sell. Even if the current owner signs an informed consent letter directing you to do substandard work, all that letter serves to do is add the owner to the list of defendants the subsequent owner can sue, and there is no defense to doing substandard work, the informed consent letter serves as an admission on your part that you knew you were doing substandard work, of course it will help your insurance company obtain some indemnification from the owner's homeowners' policy. Just ask John Larson, he got the informed consent letter signed by both the owner and the architect, his insurance company paid â…“, the architect's paid â…“, and the homeowner's insurance paid â…“. John can no longer buy insurance to contract with homeowners, and is relegated to working as a subcontractor to other contractors for I think it's the next 10 years. If you know it's wrong don't do it!
                        Last edited by Dick Seibert; 02-17-2007, 12:30 PM.
                        "The only communists left in the world are in American Universities."

                        --Mikhail Gorbachev

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                        • #13
                          Re: Why I Choose Plywood versus OSB

                          David,

                          That link did not go directly to the article, just the home page. Was it the 5 page article on the mold explosion you were referring to. I will print it and the ventilation articles out later as the font was too small for me to read on my home computer. I have looked at that site many times before and they always have good info updates.

                          Thanks,

                          Ed
                          Stay tuned for a very important message from our sponsor.
                          http://www.rightwayroofingcompany.com/
                          www.RightWayRoofingCompany.com

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                          • #14
                            Re: Why I Choose Plywood versus OSB

                            Plywood is better than OSB? STOP THE PRESSES! What are we gonna debate next, random width 1X vs. ply?
                            "I'll bend over backwards to help anybody, but I ain't bending over forwards for nobody"

                            Paul

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                            • #15
                              Re: Why I Choose Plywood versus OSB

                              WTF:

                              Okay you know that plywood is better than OSB, and you also know that 1x sheathing is better than plywood, but apparently there are participants here that are still risking their livelihood by using OSB, so I guess they haven't gotten the message yet. What better use of these fora is there than to inform contractors of defective products? I've read that 9 out of 10 new building material products proves defective and is eventually withdrawn from the market*, never believe manufacturers' claims, they are out to sell you something just like the production builders are out to sell less than astute homebuyers underpriced homes.

                              I had a judge call me into chambers last year and ask me why builders are so stupid, after mulling the usual theories that it's a field that an uneducated person can get into, I responded that it wasn't so much stupid, as it was gullible.


                              * WMD Magazine
                              Last edited by Dick Seibert; 02-17-2007, 01:15 PM.
                              "The only communists left in the world are in American Universities."

                              --Mikhail Gorbachev

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