Rapid set mortar? Experiences? Tips for use?

[always-learning]

Morning guys...


Do you use the rapid set mortars & what experiences and / or tips do you have using it? I'm considering using the rapid set mortar the next job, but I've never used it and was curious what differences it has over conventional thinset mortar applications. The website says it has a 50 minute pot life. I'm a slow tiler so I would be making small batches....

I've been using Tec Sturdi Flex by the recommendation of my local tile supplier.
I've had good success with it, but you can't walk on it for a minimum of 16 to 24 hours. I wait longer (36 to 48 hours) due to fear of disturbance....I weigh 230 so I don't take the chance of damaging anything...

I use Tec products because I feel they make the best grouts. I try to use the same thin-sets as grout unless I have a significant time between products so the original bond thinset can cure prior to installing another companies grout.
BTW.... their installation instructions "Strongly Suggest" this & I'm not interested in any warranty issues....so I do what they say.

Quick set mortar:
http://www.tecspecialty.com/product_....asp?prodId=36

Tec has a product called 3N1.... any users? Feedback?

http://www.tecspecialty.com/product_...asp?prodId=108

Luckily the H.O. is on vacation this week & I can leave the doorway unattended (see pic). This is the only entrance into the main part of the home.... If she wasn't on vacation.... I would have an exiting issue

[billfromill]

Re: Rapid set mortar? Experiences? Tips for use?

Chuck –

The TEC Quick Flex works well, and also Custom Speed Set. If you use a mixer, they will both set up faster. Also, using hot water makes it set faster than cold water. The Custom sets up faster than the TEC. I believe Grani-Rapid by Mapei achieves its full strength faster than either the TEC or Custom. The pot life of accelerated thin sets is also affected by room temperature and humidity.

Regarding the Sturdi Flex, I think that you could spend a couple of more bucks per bag and “kick it up a notch” to Full Flex. I think it is a step up from the Sturdi Flex. The 3-in-1 is great, but hard to work with.

I think all TEC products are very good, and if you use some one else’s grout, you won’t have any issues. All the major manufacturers are compatible with each other.

Bill-

[David Meiland]

Re: Rapid set mortar? Experiences? Tips for use?

Chuck, no experience with the fast mortars... I'm a slow tiler too... but that's some very clean tilework you're showing there. Those cuts in the detail photo look like you made them with a laser.

[not-the-inspector]

Re: Rapid set mortar? Experiences? Tips for use?

you can set with it in the AM and grout it in the afternoon . they say grout in 2 hours but I always go 4 hours min. strong stuff.

[andybuildz]

Re: Rapid set mortar? Experiences? Tips for use?

Not to hijack this thread but after seeing this Fast setting dryset post I got to thinking that might work better for me when I do my ceiling tomorrow.
Its a sloped bathroom ceiling on Kerdi and not that big...about 20 sq ft.
I usually just use versabond and squeeze my tiles in nice and snug but maybe a quicker setting thinset might be easier?
andy

[David Meiland]

Re: Rapid set mortar? Experiences? Tips for use?

Tile and thinset will generally stick to a ceiling as well as to a floor. I wouldn't worry about using anything unusual for it. Since you're on Kerdi the manufacturer's rec is for an unmodified thinset.

[always-learning]

Re: Rapid set mortar? Experiences? Tips for use?

Regarding the Sturdi Flex, I think that you could spend a couple of more bucks per bag and “kick it up a notch” to Full Flex. I think it is a step up from the Sturdi Flex. The 3-in-1 is great, but hard to work with.

I think all TEC products are very good, and if you use some one else’s grout, you won’t have any issues. All the major manufacturers are compatible with each other.

Bill-

Thanks Bill,

Whenever I do tile over a plywood surface (70 sq ft of this job was on ply) I utilize this:

http://www.tecspecialty.com/product_....asp?prodId=82

I feel the extra expense is worth it. I don't do a tremendous amount of tiling, so I go by the recommendations of my supplier.

Since this job, I did a lot of research on Tec mortars & Sturdi flex & full flex are primarily the same except for a 50 PSI difference with porcelain tile & a longer open time (60-80 minutes vs 50-60)

I had already had the materials delivered to the job, so I decided to use it. I've used it in the past & had no issues, so I hope I have the same luck. IMO, installation & proper mixing are more important than the product itself. I like to achieve 95-100% coverage under the tile, so it takes me longer than normal to install...and unfortunately the pain associated with doing so.

Thanks for the tips. I'm still up in the air about using the Quick Flex. I don't think that I have the finesse to be able to install that fast. I'm more of an accuracy guy & I don't do this enough to claim to be able to use the quick flex. I may try it out on a smaller job... 1/2 bath....

Mapei Ultracontact or Ultraflex are actually my favorite dryset mortars, but I was concerned with the mixing of different products on this job. 300 sq ft is the largest job I've done yet...& I didn't want any warranty issues should something occur between different manufacturers.

BTW.... I ALWAYS use Tec Grouts. Haven't found anything I like better.

[always-learning]

Re: Rapid set mortar? Experiences? Tips for use?

Chuck, no experience with the fast mortars... I'm a slow tiler too... but that's some very clean tilework you're showing there. Those cuts in the detail photo look like you made them with a laser.

Thanks David...

Just a wetsaw & 90 deg grinder with a diamond blade. I also use a border by Schluter.

Here's a couple more pix

[always-learning]

Re: Rapid set mortar? Experiences? Tips for use?

A couple more

I like the look of the edging. Just makes it finished... IMO

[andybuildz]

Re: Rapid set mortar? Experiences? Tips for use?

Tile and thinset will generally stick to a ceiling as well as to a floor. I wouldn't worry about using anything unusual for it. Since you're on Kerdi the manufacturer's rec is for an unmodified thinset.

Hey David...
Like I said...I ususally use Versbond for ceilings as I do for walls and floors but this thread had me thinking being its such a small ceiling and its "sloped" the quicker drying TS might be easier and the cost isn't such an issue there, but as I walked out to there ten minutes ago and saw the bag of Versabond sitting there I heard it say to me, "no shopping tomorrow andy,mix me and stick the dam tiles up already"...lol.
I prefere the Versabond on the Kerdi or anything else for that matter in spite of it voiding the warrantee...from what I've heard no one's had a problem using it.
Also...just ordered a new saw blade...the MK 415...WWW.TOOLKING.COM was substantially cheaper than anywhere else I looked. Amazon came close but no cigar and the sites in Johns forum were close but not cheaper.

[Jonathan70]

Re: Rapid set mortar? Experiences? Tips for use?

Custom is ok , the only custom product that actually works well, Mapei rapid set has a good pot life of almost an hour or so, if you can spread and set a 5 gal pail in an hours time your doing it right. Hint: lay out your room well, make and stack all your cuts before you mix , then mix and you can fly.

Laticrete 101 is very good too, but it becomes a matter of cost and availabililty too.

[Robert Z]

Re: Rapid set mortar? Experiences? Tips for use?

Chuck,

In general, I can tell you that the various brands of rapid sets vary not only from brand to brand, but it seems like they can vary from batch to batch within a brand. For example, I have picked up Custom Speet Set at one HD in the AM, used it all up and stopped at another HD to get more for the next day. Same job, same site conditions, and the next bags seem to have different working characteristics.

I think the magic pookie that they put in the powder to accelerate the cure is sensitive to time on the shelf and also open time on the substrate, especially when it is warm.

I usually buy the Lat 101 additive that Jonathan mentioned. It seems to be fairly consistent, and because it is a latex in a bucket, I can add it to the regular thinset that is already on the job to make it into a rapidset. 101 is quite expensive, however.

[David Meiland]

Re: Rapid set mortar? Experiences? Tips for use?

Water and air temperature, whether or not there's a breeze... those things make a big difference in kick time when there's an accelerator added. I wonder what the magic pookie is...?

[not-the-inspector]

Re: Rapid set mortar? Experiences? Tips for use?

more cement

[Robert Z]

Re: Rapid set mortar? Experiences? Tips for use?

If anyone does decide to start using the Lat 101, I can also point out that there is a good buzz to be had from the magic pookie they put in the latex. :)