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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Upstate NY
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    7

    Default Balloon Frame Temparay support

    In July '06 issue of JLC there was an article called "Installing a 20 Foot Header". I have to do almost the exact same thing as discribed in this article. Install an 17'6" header to open up an exsisting room into an addition. The header will be in the first floor of a 2 story home. I have done this before, the difference with this project is the house is balloon framed. My question is do I support the exsiting balloon framed sturcture the same way I have supported this in platform framing.

    Thanks

    Mike

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Senatobia, MS
    Posts
    1,897

    Default Re: Balloon Frame Temparay support

    My first thought would be yes. Without specific information it would really be difficult to provide a definitive answer, unless we were to cover all of the possible variables and that would take a really long time.

    Would the header be installed flush with or under the joists?

    Would the temporary shoring be in the way while trying to install the new header/beam?

    What will the jacks for the new member be landed on? (In balloon framing it should land on the foundation sill)

    Will the upper floor wall be an exterior wall after the framing is complete?

    In balloon framing, (depending on the amount of span) it is possible to attach new joists to the old ones extending out into the new space and continue framing. Put the temporary shoring under the new joists and then install the new header in it's permanent location under the existing joists without much trouble. However, the variables I listed above are just a few of those possible.

    Better information nets better answers.
    Brad

    You will never stand taller than when kneeling to help a child.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Swansboro, NC
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    1,550

    Default Re: Balloon Frame Temparay support

    I've never done one on a balloon framed wall before. Atleast not after the fact. It seams like you would approach it the same way as a platform framed wall. What are you installing for a header? How are the floor joists above attached to the exterior wall studs? The new addition side of where this header is going is it opened up to the studs so that you could brace from out there as well if needed? Give up some more info or pictures.
    Rob
    O'Brien and Sons Construction
    Swansboro NC

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    7

    Default Re: Balloon Frame Temparay support

    The header will sit flush with the joist, not under them.

    The jacks will land on the foundation

    Where the header is located, it will no be an exterior wall after framing is compleat. However, the addition does not span the whole length of the back of the house. So a few feet past the header will be exterior wall. (I hope that makes sense)

    I planed on a temp. wall on the first floor just inside the wall that will be removed and diagonal bracing on the outside that ran to a leader board that was bolted to the remaing half of the studs. This will give me room to get the header in place.

    Thanks

    Mike

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
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    Default Re: Balloon Frame Temparay support

    Rob,
    I have not had it engeered yet. The project is not scheduled till the spring. So I don't know what size the header is yet. Just trying to prepare myself a little. Besides, what else do I have to think about at 3:00 in the morning when should be sleeping.

    So there fore I don't have pictures yet eather. It is not opend up.

    Usally in this area the second floor sits on a board attached to the inside of the stud.

    I do plan on opening up the wall above the header on the outside so I can brace that as well with diagonal supports

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Senatobia, MS
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    1,897

    Default Re: Balloon Frame Temparay support

    When you open the 2nd floor exterior wall, you can brace with OSB (old $hitty board) screwed in place and it will provide more lateral stability than the diagonal bracing. If my impression of what you are doing is correct, it sounds as though you are on the right track.

    I am assuming you will complete the 1st floor framing (joists into the addition) prior to removing the supporting studs and installing the new header. Be sure to provide solid blocking between the joists before erecting your temporary support as the joists often have no bridging installed and the existing floors can sometimes twist or deflect fairly dramatically during load changes.

    If you can leave the interior and exterior side of the attachment wall relatively intact and watertight, it creates a fairly effective dust and noise barrier to the existing house and will certainly lessen the psychological impact of the work you are doing. I would try to make the header installation and the opening of the first and second floor existing walls as close to last thing on my agenda as possible.
    Brad

    You will never stand taller than when kneeling to help a child.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    Swansboro, NC
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    Default Re: Balloon Frame Temparay support

    Mike,
    I would want to know what kind of header I'm dealing with before I worried about how to get it in. With the span your talking about and it taking up the load for the second floor and roof plus your snowload, this could be a serious beam in height and width. Might change how you approach this one. Also if the floor joists are going to be flush with header, I'm assuming you mean bottom of joist flush to bottom of header. This header is more than likely going to be taller than your existing joists and wider than your existing wall, unless its 2x6 ext wall. Just some reasons why I would want to know the header first.
    Rob
    O'Brien and Sons Construction
    Swansboro NC

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Swansboro, NC
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    Default Re: Balloon Frame Temparay support

    Now I'm lost. Is this a 1 or 2 story addition? Why would you want to attach new floor joists to the old ones extending into an addition, when your going to be installing a flush beam in the process. Now you have to support and cut 2 sets of joists to make room to lift the beam into place.
    Rob
    O'Brien and Sons Construction
    Swansboro NC

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    7

    Default Re: Balloon Frame Temparay support

    It is a 2 story addition. Actually installing the header was going to be one of the first things I did. I planed to frame the first floor floor and then install the header. I expect this to be a large I-beam, and I thought without the walls it would be musch easier to get it in. I planed on putting plywood on the temp. wall to the impact on the house to a minimal. This is how I have done it in the past when the header is this big and heavy. It seems to work well.

    I am confused about the ply wood bracing. The diagonal bracing I was talking about would extend from the new floor up to the ledger board that was bolted to the remain hafe of the studs.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Swansboro, NC
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    1,550

    Default Re: Balloon Frame Temparay support

    I think your on the right track, I would put the header in when you mentioned as well. I think he was thinking that you were running diagonal bracing along the wall, like top to bottom to prevent racking, not out away from the wall like you stated above. Sounds like you have this one figured out.

    I'm curious to how your going to deal with the header extending above the top of your existing floor, floor joists. When you cut off the studs to make room for the header, you'll have walls that are practically free standing other than the diagonal bracing you mentioned. Are you planning to brace that 2 nd floor wall from inside the house as well, to prevent the load on that wall from trying to push it inwards? Sounds like a fun job, one where you think a lot at night while its going on to make sure your not forgetting something. I hope you get good weather during the framing atleast so you don't have to worry much about water and open walls.
    Rob
    O'Brien and Sons Construction
    Swansboro NC

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Portland, ME
    Posts
    6,302

    Default Re: Balloon Frame Temparay support

    It seems to me the big difference with balloon and platform framing is that with platform, you know if you're supporting the joists you're supporting the 2nd floor walls, but with balloon framing there's no guarantee. I'd want to support the wall load either indepedently or at least in conjunction with the floor load.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Upstate NY
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    7

    Default Re: Balloon Frame Temparay support

    I was thinking that the diagonal supprt would carry the load of the roof and support the remaining parts of the studs. I did not plan on building a second floor temp wall. However, it will only take a short period of time and material to bill a second floor temp wall. So to avoid a disaster I think I will.

    If the header is bigger than the space in the cealing, I will just have it even with the top of the floor joist and allow to come below the cealing on the first floor.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    Swansboro, NC
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    Default Re: Balloon Frame Temparay support

    I think that allowing it to hang below if necessary will make the whole thing a lot easier and also limit the extent of repair work to wall finishes or flooring above on the existing 2nd floor. I think for the minimal amount of time and money you would be better off doing the 2nd temp wall as well. Good luck with it. Sounds like you got it figured out.
    Rob
    O'Brien and Sons Construction
    Swansboro NC

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
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    Default Re: Balloon Frame Temparay support

    Rob,

    Thanks for your imput. This is one of these deals where you want to make sure all your t's are crossed.

    Mike

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