Who Provides Roofing/Siding Materials

[Dan Bylsma]

I'm kinda new here so I hope this question is in the right forum.
Also, kind of new with aspects of the whole general thing and am wondering on a re-roof and siding job if it is the contractor (me I hope) who provides the materials for the subs. I'm guessing so but these are areas I haven't gotten into. Appreciate any input.

[Dancing Dan]

Do you have a roofing or siding sub? What do they say? No hard and fast rule - I have a roofer who never gets materials and another who usually does.

[TWhite]

I prefer to provide the materials. That way I get the material markup.

[Joe Carola]

I'm kinda new here so I hope this question is in the right forum.
Also, kind of new with aspects of the whole general thing and am wondering on a re-roof and siding job if it is the contractor (me I hope) who provides the materials for the subs. I'm guessing so but these are areas I haven't gotten into. Appreciate any input.

Dan,

I guess that you’re the GC and this is your first roofing and siding job. There's no rule here. Some jobs I supply labor and material and some I don't. Most builders will supply materials around here.

Most of the Builders and GC's I know will let the plumber, electrician and HVAC contractors supply their own materials. Some will let the roofers supply the materials.

Either way for me, I do my own material list and will never let someone do mine. You have to work this out with your subs. You have to tell them up front that you will supply materials. If you really want to use a certain sub and he wants to supply materials, then you have to work it out with him.

[David Meiland]

If you are going to sub those items... then pick out your subs and work out with them how the material will be handled. Most of them will have a preference.

With roofing, I would prefer to have the roofer provide all materials, labor, equipment, etc. A complete job that is completely his responsibility if there are problems. If I knew a lot about roofing and had done it myself I might feel differently, but this is a trade where I find the best subs I can and rely on them.

With siding, I might provide the material to a sub, but in most situations here siding is done by the contractor's crew. For that I would be looking to hire and use your own carpenters. I view the window/door install, the wrap or felt, the flashing, the trim, and the siding as one piece of work that I want total control of. I would not sub that piece unless you know someone who is A+ on every aspect of the cladding. I know there are siding subs elsewhere but it's not the norm here, so that's my view of it.

[JefTex]

Ditto on what the others said...

Only one thing i might add is, unless you know your roofing and siding subs well and fully trust what they say, If you let them supply the materials (which is what I would suggest) at least do your own measurements.

Whenever your paying at least $125.00 + per square for the reroof (dependiing on type of roofing materials and location) it doesn't take a whole lot to get ripped off.

So I would at least do my own take-off even if it is just for reference untill you can trust them.

It's not that you'll be making any accusation to double check them....it's just business.

[AZ Contractor]

GC's have been purchasing materials for subs to keep their sub costs lower which reduces their insurance premiums. That's the only reason I would buy materials.

I prefer to provide the materials. That way I get the material markup.

That doesn't make sense. Why can't you charge markup on his labor and material bid?

[Joe Carola]

That doesn't make sense. Why can't you charge markup on his labor and material bid?

Probaly because the material gets marked up twice that way. Once from the sub marking it up and then him marking up.

[AZ Contractor]

Probaly because the material gets marked up twice that way. Once from the sub marking it up and then him marking up.

I still don't see the problem.

Here's a scenario:

New TI Project.

My plumber doesn't break down labor or materials and gives me a lump sum bid of $50,0000.

Electrician gives me a lump sum bid of $40,000.
So on and so forth with multiple other trades.

Subcontractor's total bids amount to $500,000.

I add my markup to that $500,000. So in essence, my subs marked up their materials and I added markup on them a second time.

[Bob Kovacs]

I still don't see the problem.

Here's a scenario:

New TI Project.

My plumber doesn't break down labor or materials and gives me a lump sum bid of $50,0000.

Electrician gives me a lump sum bid of $40,000.
So on and so forth with multiple other trades.

Subcontractor's total bids amount to $500,000.

I add my markup to that $500,000. So in essence, my subs marked up their materials and I added markup on them a second time.

So that puts your price higher than your competitior, who buys the material direct and therefore only marks the material up once. That makes his price more attractive to the client.

Bob

[Joe Carola]

I still don't see the problem.

Here's a scenario:

New TI Project.

My plumber doesn't break down labor or materials and gives me a lump sum bid of $50,0000.

Electrician gives me a lump sum bid of $40,000.
So on and so forth with multiple other trades.

Subcontractor's total bids amount to $500,000.

I add my markup to that $500,000. So in essence, my subs marked up their materials and I added markup on them a second time.

You just said it that your marking it up twice. That will put you higher than the next guy.


If you were to price out a framing labor and materials job only for a client.

I give you a price for framing labor of 5000.00

Your mark up on my labor for example 30%.

Framing labor 6500.00



Lumber comes out to 5000.00.

Your mark up on lumber is for example 30%

Lumber now 6500.00

Labor-6500.00
Material - 6500.00
Your Total Price to HO- 13,000.00

If I supply labor and material, I'm marking up the material 30% also.

Labor- 5,000.00
Material - 6,500.00
Total Cost to you - 11,500.00

You take my total labor and Material cost an add your Markup to 11,500.00.

11,500.00 + 30% = 14,950.00

So now you’re selling the job to your client for 1,950.00 more. That could put you over another contractor who supplies his own materials.

Even though in your example with your subs lump sum. They marked up their materials also.

You’re marking up materials twice.

[David Meiland]

Great reasons not to do competitive bidding.

[Joe Carola]

Great reasons not to do competitive bidding.

What if you have no choice?

[Jon Blakemore]

Great reasons not to do competitive bidding.

I think you're always competing against something. Whether it be another contractor, the owner's budget, or your sub's profit margin. Constraints are always present, even if we don't know about them.

[AZ Contractor]

I understand all that Bob and Joe, its simple math which I can do in my head. Where I was going with it was that if you can sell projects not based on dollar amount alone, then the amount of markup or the amount of times material is marked up doesn't matter.

Great reasons not to do competitive bidding.

I haven't bid competitively on 5 years. I think if you give reasonable prices, do top quality work, and be effective communicators with your customers that anyone can get away from competitive bidding. All it takes is time and networking skills.

I don't even get competitive bids for some of my subcontractors. I know if their prices are reasonable based on historical estimating. If I feel they might be a little high, then, I'll get competitive bids to compare and put them in check. I know my projects will run more efficiently because of extensive experience with these subs so I like to keep them around.

Communication is one of the biggest factors for me. A lot of subs can perform equivalent workmanship but if I have to chase down one sub to get an answer and the other always picks up the phone when I call, I'm going with the later choice.