TJI Horses

[littlebluetruck]

Got the idea from Building Tips & Techniques pg 14. I made a few simplifications--the original design used 1x4 legs, required you to put the cross block BETWEEN the legs instead of against them, and also recommended leaving the bottom rail of the TJI long to act as a saw hanger. (Seems to me that would constantly be getting in the way.) I used 2x4 because I had some forms leftover from a walkway, and I put the brace AGAINST the legs and left it long for saws. Cut the legs at a compound angle (15*x15*), 33" long, and then cut the top edge down so it tucks under the top rail of the TJI. 3" screws lock the legs together through the web. Light and strong.

The other sawhorses in the photo are a modification on John Caroll's design.... I usually build this type, and the shorter ones (2-2.5 FT) are great as platform stepstools. The shelf is endlessly handy as well.

-Aaron II

[Tim Uhler]

Aaron,

No guards on the saws? I just wanted to be the first to say it.
The saw horses look good, but those saws have seen some use :-)

edit- I hope that didn't come across condescending. That wasn't my intention. I was just kidding you.

[littlebluetruck]

First cut without a guard made me an instant convert--I haven't let the guard down in years. (Come to think of it I should probably just take them off so I don't have to worry about pinning them back all the time!) I'm very concsious of where the blade is and what it can do to you...

Actually I only had the 6-1/2" out so I wouldn't have to be switching the bevel around. I use the Mag almost exclusively, and yes, that dude has been around the block a time or two. I appreciate new tools but I prefer to use it up and wear it out as long as it's serviceable and does the job.

-Aaron II

I hope that didn't come across condescending. That wasn't my intention. I was just kidding you.

You know Tim the fact that you would even post on one of my threads at all is amazing in itself. Compared to what you are doing and the knowledge you have, or Tom, or Joe B or the others, I'm building sandcastles on the beach with my plastic shovel.

[Tim Uhler]

You know Tim the fact that you would even post on one of my threads at all is amazing in itself. Compared to what you are doing and the knowledge you have, or Tom, or Joe B or the others, I'm building sandcastles on the beach with my plastic shovel.

I appreciate your comments, but to be honest, come visit one of my jobsites. You'll realize just how much you can't see in the pictures :-)

Have you considered a different wormdrive? When I started framing (or being a laborer) after school in high school, the only saws used were Skils. I remember when the Mag first came out and we were blown away by the difference 1 pound could make.

I sent my Ridgid in yesterday to get some warranty work done. There are some loose screws and the guard started sticking. Of course, we are closing in on the record for consecutive days where it has rained, and that might have something to do with it. Other than some minor grips, I love this saw. That guard only sticks cutting steep compound miters. I can shave slivers without pinning the guard.

You may think about keeping the Mag in reserve and getting a newer saw. When I sent mine off yesterday, the guy at the FedEx place said that that saw doesn't look like its been used by a DIY'er. I took that as a compliment. The fact that your saw has seen some action should be a compliment.

[littlebluetruck]

The fact that your saw has seen some action should be a compliment.

That's why I'm afraid to get a new one!

No, seriously, I do think about it... but there's always new and better, so I'm trying to discipline myself to rely less on the tools and more on my skill. Do you know what I mean? When you're just starting out you're all new and shiny and it's a good thing because that's about all you've got going for you. Once you get some experience you learn that the tools won't do the work on their own... the most important part of the equation is me, not my hammer.

If I really do need a new tool, I like to go for a good one. A spartan set of top-notch gear is much better than a basement full of generic junk.

Anyway, thanks for the tip-off. I'll keep it in mind.

-Aaron II

[neilsc]

Tim you are in Wash., and Aaron you are in Calif. I have always found it interesting the differrences regions have. I am from Ct. and have been in South Carolina for 15 yrs, I don't even think I have hit the trigger on a worm drive. It scares me to think what my already achy carpenters elbow , wrist etc. would feel like.
What advantages do those big suckers bring you, and man I wish I could keep my tools that long
thx. neil

[Tim Uhler]

Tim you are in Wash., and Aaron you are in Calif. I have always found it interesting the differrences regions have. I am from Ct. and have been in South Carolina for 15 yrs, I don't even think I have hit the trigger on a worm drive. It scares me to think what my already achy carpenters elbow , wrist etc. would feel like.
What advantages do those big suckers bring you, and man I wish I could keep my tools that long
thx. neil

Wormdrive saws have a ton of torque. That may not be a big deal when you are just cutting 2x4s or something, but when you cut steep compound miters or you are ripping LVL or cutting beams, it's nice to have that torque. The way inline saws are designed, your hand is behind the blade. This puts less stress on the wrist, although someone might say that the weight negates the ergonomics. The blade is on the left also which makes it easier for right handed guys to see the line. The weight helps to cut straighter too. I've just found inline saws to be more comfortable.

I've said this before, I started using wormdrives when I was 15-16. Granted, I wasn't very good with a saw, but I don't recall complaining about the weight. My cousin started framing with us on his summer break when he was 16. He's 6'1" and he was 145 or so. He never complained. I guess on paper those saws weigh a lot, but in use you really don't notice it.

I hope this doesn't come across rude, but for guys who frame day in and day out, we already are used to packing materials, lifting beams, etc. We should be strong enough to handle a 14lb saw. Steriods help too. :-)

[Dick Seibert]

Tim:

I guess we learn at a young age to always cut down and let the weight of the saw do the work for you. Once the saw gets into the wood you can pretty much relax and guide it as it does the work for you. Now it is hard if you are cutting something overhead! I still have my personal 77 (leaking seals and all which there are no parts to fix) from the late '50s, I prefer it to the mags because of the added weight. I've bought around 100 77s over the last 50 years and recently switched to the more powerful Bosch. I've got two Makita sidewinders, a 16" beam saw (which replaced the DeWalt Radial Arm Saws) and a 4" stucco cutting saw (but notice that the blade is on the right side).

Another thing that separates the men from the boys in California is our extension cords, we always use 10-3s with twist lock connectors. CALOSHA requires twist lock connectors, but since the rest of the nation allows house plugs we have to replace the entire pigtail when we buy a new tool, CALOSHA won't allow us to replace just a plug. Until I came to these forums a few years ago I had no idea that carpenters in other parts of the country used sidewinders for everyday work, we always thought that Sidewinders were strictly DIY tools, then I was told that eastern carpenters used sidewinders because of the cold weather, that the grease in 77s was sluggish in the mornings.

[Tim Uhler]

Tim:

I guess we learn at a young age to always cut down and let the weight of the saw do the work for you. Once the saw gets into the wood you can pretty much relax and guide it as it does the work for you. Now it is hard if you are cutting something overhead! I still have my personal 77 (leaking seals and all which there are no parts to fix) from the late '50s, I prefer it to the mags because of the added weight. I've bought around 100 77s over the last 50 years and recently switched to the more powerful Bosch. I've got two Makita sidewinders, a 16" beam saw (which replaced the DeWalt Radial Arm Saws) and a 4" stucco cutting saw (but notice that the blade is on the right side).

Another thing that separates the men from the boys in California is our extension cords, we always use 10-3s with twist lock connectors. CALOSHA requires twist lock connectors, but since the rest of the nation allows house plugs we have to replace the entire pigtail when we buy a new tool, CALOSHA won't allow us to replace just a plug. Until I came to these forums a few years ago I had no idea that carpenters in other parts of the country used sidewinders for everyday work, we always thought that Sidewinders were strictly DIY tools, then I was told that eastern carpenters used sidewinders because of the cold weather, that the grease in 77s was sluggish in the mornings.

Dick,
We use twist lock also. I'm not sure if it is that particular brand, but we picked them up at JLC LIVE last year (year ago) in Portland. I was taught to let the saw do the work. I was fortunate to work guys who were in their late 30's early 40's, many of whom had framed in CA and at least one of the guys had been through the apprenticeship program. I wasn't just left to figure things out.

After testing the saws for JLC I bought a Bosch and Jasen bought a Bosch. We had some DeWalts already and they started to really crap out. The Bosch saws we bought didn't last a year. I need to "persuade" the bevel gauge past 40 and it drives me nuts.

We bought 4 Ridgid wormdrives after testing that saw and it is a better saw than the Bosch. Very similar in many respects to the Bosch and Skil, but better. The levers are larger, bevel guage works better, but I wish the baseplate was a waffled baseplate like the Bosch. So far no one has bent their base in the 6 months we've had our personal saws. Some parts came loose on mine and I sent it in to get some warranty work done. I do like the warranty, 3 years, so we'll see how the saw wears. I'll be using my Bosch for the next couple of weeks.

I know these circ vs inline debates come and go. I can't really argue with someones preference and it isn't worth trying to do. One thing I've noticed on the boards is that there is a definite east coast mentality that is 180° from the west coast mentality. It seems like the east coast is much more detail oriented. Not that the west coast isn't, but we typically work on only new (with some exceptions) and there isn't the centuries of history and architecture out here that we try and be true to. We have the room to grow and build new, and back there they don't. There isn't as much new construction it seems. Certainly no tract building there.

You know this better than I do being in CA, but doesn't it seem like the west is more production oriented and the east coast isn't? In the west you have large housing developments, tract style building, lower cost in many places. It seems to me that most of the really good prodution techniques came from CA. Not that the east coast doesn't have production techniques, but it seem like there is more of a finish carps mentality to framing.

In no way am I diminishing the east coast style of framing. I have a great deal of respect for that style and the really cool work they get to do. I wish we could do more detail work like that, but that isn't the mindset out here except in certain places. It seems like the customers back there are willing to pay for more architecture. Maybe someday that'll make it out here.

Edit: Two things. I didn't mean to hijack this thread. Sorry about that Aaron.
Second, I really hope it doesn't sound like I'm bashing the east coast guys. I'm not. There is a builder who builds what for me is perfection. I believe he builds in MN and it is Kyle Hunt Partners We don't get to build that kind of home here because no one will pay for it. We build more spartan comparitively. I wish I got to build like some of the east coast guys. Those homes in the gallery are just the coolest and I love the detail. It would require a different mentality to frame, side and finish. For me to work on a house like that, I'd have to put on the east coast hat. So my comments I hope didn't come across disrespectfully. I respect what you guys do and get to do.

[Dick Seibert]

Tim:

You are really on to something here, but we are way off topic. Let me think about and maybe start a new thread about the history of this business (east coast vs. west coast). I really enjoyed your link to Kyle Hunt (that is until I came across the statement that they have a combines experience of over 40 years, I've got over 50 years alone and they seem like newcomers to an old fart like me!), they do some beautiful things.

[Dancing Dan]

Those are cool horses - we should have enough scraps to build some this week.

And I also don't want to get into the East Coast/West Coast debate, except to say I've been a yankee all my life and didn't touch a worm drive for the first 10 years of my career, but since trying them I hardly ever frame with my sidewinder. I don't do a lot of framing so I find the monsters too heavy, but I'm a big fan of the DeWalt hypoid (DW378) - I think it's a great combination of weight and power. But for things other than framing, I still reach for a sidewinder.

And in general, it seems that all the innovations in framing techniques come from the West Coast. There, I'm not afraid to say it.

[Allan Edwards]

And in general, it seems that all the innovations in framing techniques come from the West Coast.

Most of the innovations I've seen in framing have come from Mexico ;)

[davedd]

My tji horses are a little different. A 2 x 4 goes on the bottom of the the tj and the legs are nailed to that and the top flange. Plywood gussets are then put on the ends. They seem to last a long time.

LBT, I rarely pin the guard on a saw. I have seen a couple bad injuries form skill saws and to me it is not worth it. Be carefull.

East coast --West coast

I started framing near Boston and we mostly used worm drives. Now I am in Co and I have worked with guys both from the east and west. One difference I see is that most of the north eastern guys have done trim and other parts of the job. Of the CA guys that have worked with me all but one strictly framed. When I was on the east coast there were lots of young guys who had gone to the vocational high schools and where starting their careers with a good basic knowledge of framing and trim. In my area now there are no voc. schools and not many young carps. Does CA have the vocational high schools?

[littlebluetruck]

Does CA have the vocational high schools?

We don't have the vocational young people.

[rustynail]

the hijack continues.....
when I first started I was taught when you buy a new skil 77, the saw comes outta the box, guard comes outta the saw, 100' 10-3 twist loc cord goes in the saw (no plug to catch on framing), but now with cal osha the guard HAS to be in the saw( some outrageous fine, $1,200 I think) can't have a cord longer then 6' and the cord has to have original plug, (skil does sell saws with twist locs). I hate the guard in my saw.
I pin my guard up by drilling a hole just big enough for a 16d in the guard lever and thru the top guard, retract the guard, then stick a nail thru the lever then the holes in the top guard. was gonna take a pic but my saws at the job site in the job box.
another saw trick, if you have allot of 2x ripping to do put a 6 1/2" blade in your 7 1/4" saw. it gives the saw more torque and doesn't bog as much
Rusty