Are you a subscriber but don’t have an online account?

Register for full online access.

 
 
 
 
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Crinkled Tyvek

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    NW CT
    Posts
    335

    Default Crinkled Tyvek

    We just tore off some white cedar shingles, home was built late 1990s and the existing showedhad the following:
    1- It was all crinkly, like if you rolled it into a ball and put it back.
    2- There were brown marks about 4" away from the window casing and on 3 sides (not the sill), probably cedar bleed but why there?
    The siding was apparantly not backprimed which didn't surprise me.
    Never saw this before. Doesn't really matter since we are replacing all the housewrap and siding, but I am curious what caused this. I am going to do a few more areas and see if it is confined to one area or is housewide. This particular area was a north elevation so I am ruling out heat shrinkage from the sun.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Little River, SC
    Posts
    1,234

    Default Re: Crinkled Tyvek

    Must have been a really crappy job if the house is only 5 to 7 years old & they are already relplacing the siding. Might want to check into the rainscreen option (Pactive green guard, or equivelant). Brown streaks could be rust from the fasteners or bleeding as you had suggested. Sound like a good job though. Post some pics when your done.
    Two roads diverged in a narrow wood. I took the path less traveled.
    http://renov8u2.com
    http://reverbnation.com/cortezthekillers

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    4,685

    Default Re: Crinkled Tyvek

    Tyvek most likely came unfastened in some areas, flapped around in the wind, which made it crinkly, then it was just fastened back instead of replaced. Don't know about the brown marks. Are they in line with the edges of where the casings were?

    Tom

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    NW CT
    Posts
    335

    Default Re: Crinkled Tyvek

    The tyvek seemed fastened ok. The dark areas were about 4" away from the casing edge. Although it was a crappy job, we are not tearing it out for that, just because the Owner didn't like the color. Want's natural. Nice to have that kind of money.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Martinez, California
    Posts
    14,992

    Default Re: Crinkled Tyvek

    Brad:

    Can you post some pictures of the Tyvek? I see Tyvek destroyed by tannins in redwood and cedar, as well as resins in OSB. If you've got OSB, Tyvek, and cedar you've got a real mess.
    “It is not an endlessly expanding list of rights —the “right” to an education; the “right” to health care; the “right” to food and housing. That is not freedom. That is dependency. Those are not rights. Those are the rations of slavery – hay and a barn for human cattle.” - Alexis de Tocqueville

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    138

    Default Re: Crinkled Tyvek

    Quote Originally Posted by Dick Seibert
    Brad:

    I see Tyvek destroyed by tannins in redwood and cedar, as well as resins in OSB. If you've got OSB, Tyvek, and cedar you've got a real mess.
    I'm not trying to hijack this thread so maybe a PM is in order here...could you, Dick, drop me a link about OSB destroying Tyvek?

    I'm only curious because we use Tyvek over OSB where I work and have for years. I'm just a carpenter but I'd be curious to see what that's about.

    Thanks.

    Tom

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    NW CT
    Posts
    335

    Default Re: Crinkled Tyvek

    I checked the demo again today and the dark staining appears to be coming from the asphalt felt which was installed before the tyvek. I am still stumped on the crinkling. It is on all 4 sides of the house, top to bottom, must have something to do with the white cedar. There was an area covered by masonry where the tyvek was fine (althouigh I think I would have used felt)

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Martinez, California
    Posts
    14,992

    Default Re: Crinkled Tyvek

    Brad:

    Do you mean that the house had both asphalt felt and Tyvek? Now you concern me because I combine Tyvek's Flexwrap and 30# felt and of course not enough time as elapsed to know of any failures. I called DuPont before combining the products and asked their technical people if there were any compatibility problems with their products and asphalt based products, they said they didn't know because they had never tested for compatibility. I took this to mean that they just wanted us to use Tyvek with their Flexwrap and proceeded to combine the products. I'd still like to see some pictures, you may be on to something really important if there are compatibility problems.

    Tom:

    I'll try to find some pictures, the problem is when I am called into a failure there are usually multiple problems, like OSB/Tyvek/Cedar, or OSB/Torn-Tyvek/Stucco, or OSB/Tyvek/Stucco. I'll see if I can find something where there was no cause of failure other than the OSB. I think the problem is that our better builders use plywood, so those who try to save a few dollars a sheet on the sheathing try to save on other areas.
    “It is not an endlessly expanding list of rights —the “right” to an education; the “right” to health care; the “right” to food and housing. That is not freedom. That is dependency. Those are not rights. Those are the rations of slavery – hay and a barn for human cattle.” - Alexis de Tocqueville

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Northwest lower MI
    Posts
    375

    Default Re: Crinkled Tyvek

    This might be a dumb question, but are you sure you’re not looking at Tyvek Stuccowrap?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    NW CT
    Posts
    335

    Default Re: Crinkled Tyvek

    Roger, I looked up stuccowrap and what I see on the job is similari appearance, but I don't think it is. I can check the writing on the wrap.

    Dick, it looks like the way they installed the windows was to wrap the plywood outside the frame in felt, like we did in the old days. Then they installed tyvek over the opening and probably slit it with an X, then they installed a clad window. Redunant and not the way I would have done, but that is the way they did. There is definitely a compatability problem between the felt and the tyvek. I am going to take a picture and see if I can post it. Fortunately we are removing all the old tyvek.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Martinez, California
    Posts
    14,992

    Default Re: Crinkled Tyvek

    Brad:

    You bring up a huge issue, I combine Tyvek's Flexwrap with felt on all round windows; and worse, wrap all of my shower valves with it before installing Bituthene. Allan installs Tyvek over felt on all of his houses, so both of us are in real trouble if what you are finding is true.
    “It is not an endlessly expanding list of rights —the “right” to an education; the “right” to health care; the “right” to food and housing. That is not freedom. That is dependency. Those are not rights. Those are the rations of slavery – hay and a barn for human cattle.” - Alexis de Tocqueville

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    NOLA
    Posts
    4,173

    Default Re: Crinkled Tyvek

    Can you get any pictures of this?

    It sounds like an interesting mix of flashing techniques.

    If I understand it right:
    felt splines around the window before weather-resistive barrier (wrb)
    Then housewrap over the splines folded into the opening in some fashion.
    When were the windows installed and what flashing behind did they use?

    Tyvek stucco wrap, now called drain wrap, will have some identifying label.
    I am too lazy to read the entire thread, is the felt Kraft paper, grade d, or roofing felt?

    Pictures would be interesting.
    Can you look at some stucco wrap to see if it is similar to your stuff?

    Bill R

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Friday Harbor, San Juan Island, Washington
    Posts
    13,029

    Default Re: Crinkled Tyvek

    Quote Originally Posted by Dick Seibert
    You bring up a huge issue, I combine Tyvek's Flexwrap with felt on all round windows; and worse, wrap all of my shower valves with it before installing Bituthene. Allan installs Tyvek over felt on all of his houses, so both of us are in real trouble if what you are finding is true.
    Dick, why would you wrap a shower valve in FlexWrap?

    I think the incompatibility Brad is talking about is Tyvek vs. felt, not Tyvek vs. FlexWrap (or bituthene?). Almost every window I see installed here is Tyvek and Vycor, so hopefully that's not a problem.

    What I remember reading from Allan is that he uses two layers of Tyvek.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Martinez, California
    Posts
    14,992

    Default Re: Crinkled Tyvek

    David:

    Tyvek and Flexwrap must be made of the same components; the question now is whether they are compatible with asphalt-based products. As I said I called DuPont and they said they had never tested for compatibility. Allan has said on numerous occasions that he uses two layer Grade D and puts Tyvek over it, I use Flex wrap to flash my shower valves because you can wrap it tightly around a small pipe. Shower valves should be flanged like shower floor drains, but none of them are and I've found that all leak in time, leaking showers have been the biggest defect in houses I built in the 60s and 70s. Water bounces off bodddies standing in showers soaking the wall, eventually the wall leaks around the valves. The has become even more important now that we are putting all of those little body sprays all around our showers.
    Last edited by Dick Seibert; 01-01-2006 at 12:40 PM.
    “It is not an endlessly expanding list of rights —the “right” to an education; the “right” to health care; the “right” to food and housing. That is not freedom. That is dependency. Those are not rights. Those are the rations of slavery – hay and a barn for human cattle.” - Alexis de Tocqueville

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    66

    Default Re: Crinkled Tyvek

    As an alternative material to consider for the future, Low-E has come out with a housewrap material which is made from polyethylene foam and aluminum foil but it's perforated to allow diffusion to occur. It acts and a mass water shed and a thermal break in one layer and goes on in place of tyvek. Not sure about using it around shower pipes, but with a smaller hole punched in it, it would make a great seal around any pipe because of it's flexibility and water shed properties.

    Interesting issue about possible reaction between Tyvek and felt paper though. Keep the details coming and pictures if you can.

    Are there any air passage ways from inside along the 4" area you're talking about? Does it coincide with the outside edges of the jack studs and headers at all? Any signs of condensation in the area?

    Jim Coler
    Coler Building Technologies
    www.coler.com

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts