Hanging Drywall for Dummies? Help with corners

[PMacken]

This will probably be a very basic question compared to others posted here, but I could really use some help.

I'm starting to hang drywall in my newly finished basement, and Mr. Ferguson's book has certainly helped. But I'm still having a few problems with corners and out of square edges.

My studs are 16 o.c. and sqaure has far as I know. However, some of the beveled joints won't line up square without trimming. Second, I'm trying to preserve as many beveled factory edges as possible, but getting everything to line up with wihout cutting is really difficult, especially in corners.

For example, the last sheet of the wall that buts against a corner was out of square with the factory joints. A problem with the corner or something else? Why is this happening? Do I need to change my technique?

Second, what is an acceptable gap between the sheets in corners?

Third, does anyone have any tips on scribing the sheets?

Thanks for any help or advice! I'm on the verge on hiring this out because I want a nice installation for my taping contractor. On the flip side, I'm really intersted in learning this and would like to do it myself.

Thanks!
Patrick

Side note: These sheets are hung vertically, because I can only get 8' sheets into my basement. I'm willing to switch to horizontal if that will fix my problems. Can I leave the four sheets that are in place and switch?

[kreg McMahon]

Re: Hanging Drywall for Dummies? Help with corners

use the metal corner bead after you trim and square up. then let the taper do the rest. thats whats good about drywall you can trim tape and mud to make it look great. after all its your basement.,

[Greg Di]

Re: Hanging Drywall for Dummies? Help with corners

Patrick,

What part of "for Construction Professionals only" didn't you understand when you registered to post on this site?

Without being as rude as some of the other guys wil be, you should probably ask these types of questions someplace else as you are literally taking food off the table of professional contractors by performing this project yourself. It is akin to asking your mechanic how to fix your car so that you don't have to pay him to do it. Get it?

[PMacken]

Re: Hanging Drywall for Dummies? Help with corners

Greg,

If only I could get a professional contractor to do this relatively small job of hanging my basement drywall....

All that I've talked to are "very busy" or won't even return a phone call. Did I mention I'm paying cash and willing to pay a premium to have things complete? Isn't providing good customer service part of being a professional?

(FYI, I have used professional contractors for most other aspects of this project, including professional framers, electricians, and plumbers.)

As far as taking money away from pros, I guess I understand that. But they're taking money away from themselves by not returning my phone calls.

If you posted a message in forum focusing on my area of expertise, I would be happy to share information with you. This information would HELP you make a more informed decision and increase my value to you as a customer. Do you hear any doctors complaining that medical information websites are taking business away from them?

Get it?

[jasoncring]

Re: Hanging Drywall for Dummies? Help with corners

While I agree with Greg's POV, I don't mind people doing their own drywall. By the time they're done, and sometimes earlier, they will never do it again. Moreover, while some may puff out their chests and claim there was nothing to it, most will tell their friends all about what a marathon nightmare it was and how anyone who does this for a living is obviously an idiot.

Are you sure everything is on the square down there?

As for scribing, there is no great trick. A sheet is a sheet. Just scribe as you would any other material.

Just keep your cool and read the tape. You're saving plenty on the hanging, so if you have to offer the finisher a bit more to keep him happy you'll still be ahead.

Some finishers carry screw guns too. If you've really had enough, see if he'll help you out. We hate hanging though, and double our rates.

[fn_benthayer]

Re: Hanging Drywall for Dummies? Help with corners

Hang your boards level from the ceiling down and your corners will be plumb unless the framing is very bad.

That'll be $67 <grin>

[Myron Ferguson]

Re: Hanging Drywall for Dummies? Help with corners

Lets face it a low of people try and do their own work , from auto repairs to drywall. If I was afraid of loosing work by giving advice I never would have written a book, most people who buy if are DIY'ers. I have never worried about getting work, I show up on time, return calls and do good work, even finish jobs others have started.
Does it still say for professionals only? I couldn't find that anywhere and I thought I had that omitted a while ago.

[JourneymanCarpenterT]

Re: Hanging Drywall for Dummies? Help with corners

As long as I have the go-ahead, here's what I would recommend:

"Some of the beveled joints won't line up square without trimming."

You shouldn't have to cut to get tapered edges to fit together. To fix this problem, use a 4' level to stand the first sheet up plumb. Be careful to stand each additional sheet up flush with the edge of the previous one.

Something else to look out for is the edges bubbling out. This will push the next board out of plumb. If you're fastening to wood studs, drive only one screw in the edge before you stand the next board up against it. When you fasten the next sheet in place, make sure the joint is securely tight, THEN screw it off nice and good. If the edges bubble a little now, it's not going to throw you out of plumb.

The alternative would be to lay the sheets horizontally as mentioned (I personally wouldn't do it this way with 8' sheets, unless the wall is 8' long or less). If the ceiling is reasonably level, you can start hanging at the top. Otherwise, you'll have to hang the first sheet level at the bottom, and go from there.

Here's another tip. Whenever you hang board over a concrete floor, prop it up with scrap drywall (1/2" or 5/8"). This will keep the bottom edge dry. This is'nt always done, so if you've hung walls tight to the concrete already, I would'nt worry about it too much. But it's something to keep in mind.

If you hang horizontally, make sure you stagger your joints. For 24" stud spacing, go to at least the next stud. For 16" stud spacing, stagger your joint at least 32" apart. This will make them less noticeable after the wall is finished.
_____

"Getting everything to line up without cutting is really difficult, especially in corners." "Does anyone have any tips on scribing the sheets?"

Sometimes this happens in corners. By the time you reach the end of a wall, you may also reach a noticeable accumulative error. Or, the adjoining wall may be out of plumb. Or both, compounding your problem.

Fortunately, often there'll be a board you'll place on the adjoining wall that can cover a gap. If this is the case, cut the entire length at the shortest point. If there is no board to be placed on the adjoining wall, or if doing this would create a gap that is extreme, the solution is to scribe the sheet.

You can use a simple pocket scriber, such as "General Tool's" compass/scriber (model number 843-1). I never put my tool belt on without it. Make sure you hold the pencil parallel with the compass leg the entire scribe. If you don't, your scribe will be inaccurate.
_____

"What is an acceptable gap between the sheets in corners?"

I don't personally tape, but I believe somewhere in Myron's book he says anything over 1/8" will create extra work for the taper. Anything over 1/4" is definitely unacceptable.
_____

"Can I leave the four sheets that are in place and switch?"

If you mean on the same wall, it's possible, but I would'nt recommend it. It would be a pain to finish, and then make for an ugly finished product. I don't see any reason though to switch to a horizontal layout. Simply hang the rest of the wall vertical.

I hope this helps. If not this time, maybe next time.

[TSJHD1]

Re: Hanging Drywall for Dummies? Help with corners

As long as I have the go-ahead, here's what I would recommend:


You shouldn't have to cut to get tapered edges to fit together. To fix this problem, use a 4' level to stand the first sheet up plumb. Be careful to stand each additional sheet up flush with the edge of the previous one.

The alternative would be to lay the sheets horizontally as mentioned (I personally wouldn't do it this way with 8' sheets, unless the wall is 8' long or less). If the ceiling is reasonably level, you can start hanging at the top. Otherwise, you'll have to hang the first sheet level at the bottom, and go from there.

Here's another tip. Whenever you hang board over a concrete floor, prop it up with scrap drywall (1/2" or 5/8"). This will keep the bottom edge dry. This is'nt always done, so if you've hung walls tight to the concrete already, I would'nt worry about it too much. But it's something to keep in mind.


I don't personally tape, but I believe somewhere in Myron's book he says anything over 1/8" will create extra work for the taper. Anything over 1/4" is definitely unacceptable.
_____

And as long as we're giving a DIY'er tips, let's give him good ones. Do not use a level for anything. Do not hang a horizontal sheet at the bottom first. Level and plumb does not matter now. You have to go with the framing. If you want to continue hanging vertically, I don't see a problem. Do not use a level to plumb your sheet, however. Set the edge of the sheet with a consistent 3/4" reveal left showing of the stud. If the sheet is off at the top, you can adjust it a bit, but not much. If you hang horizontally, who cares if the ceiling isn't level? Hang from the top, scribing to fit the ceiling if it's out of plane. Cut off the bottom edge of the lower sheet so it won't be on the floor, but do not set the bottom sheet first (and level at that! What do we do next? Cut the top sheet on a taper to fit? No)

[JourneymanCarpenterT]

Re: Hanging Drywall for Dummies? Help with corners

Basement ceiling height is ussually several inches under 8'.

[TSJHD1]

Re: Hanging Drywall for Dummies? Help with corners

Your point being...? I said to cut off the bottom edge of the bottom sheet. Look, it's nice you want to get involved. But you're still new to the trades. So don't be so quick to give advice unless you're really sure about what you're saying. There's a lot of talent here. And a lot to be learned.

Tom

[JourneymanCarpenterT]

Re: Hanging Drywall for Dummies? Help with corners

And as long as we're giving a DIY'er tips, let's give him good ones. Do not use a level for anything. Do not hang a horizontal sheet at the bottom first. Level and plumb does not matter now. You have to go with the framing. If you want to continue hanging vertically, I don't see a problem. Do not use a level to plumb your sheet, however. Set the edge of the sheet with a consistent 3/4" reveal left showing of the stud. If the sheet is off at the top, you can adjust it a bit, but not much. If you hang horizontally, who cares if the ceiling isn't level? Hang from the top, scribing to fit the ceiling if it's out of plane. Cut off the bottom edge of the lower sheet so it won't be on the floor, but do not set the bottom sheet first (and level at that! What do we do next? Cut the top sheet on a taper to fit? No)

Just wanted to preserve the original post so that it would'nt be edited.

[JourneymanCarpenterT]

Re: Hanging Drywall for Dummies? Help with corners

Your point being...? I said to cut off the bottom edge of the bottom sheet. Look, it's nice you want to get involved. But you're still new to the trades. So don't be so quick to give advice unless you're really sure about what you're saying. There's a lot of talent here. And a lot to be learned.

Tom

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Alright . . . I tried to be nice.

I'd like to know exactly what your point is:

"Do not use a level for anything."??

That picture of Myron using a 4' LEVEL as a straightedge must only be in my book.-p. 50 (Caption: "Use a straight edge such as a 4-FT. LEVEL, to check framing that you suspect is out of line.")
_____

"Do not hang a horizontal sheet at the bottom first."??

Really? Never? Myron apparently does when hanging a gable ends of a room with a cathedral or SLOPED ceiling." Here's why:

"The floor is a good FLAT surface from which to measure, and the bottom panel usually has a SQUARE end for at least part of the height. The second panel can be measured from the BOTTOM PANEL. Hanging the panels on TOP of each other makes it easier to hold them in place . . ."
_____

"Level and plumb does not matter now. You have to go with the framing. If you want to continue hanging vertically, I don't see a problem. Do not use a level to plumb your sheet, however. Set the edge of the sheet with a consistent 3/4" reveal left showing of the stud. If the sheet is off at the top, you can adjust it a bit, but not much."??

What if the stud you start on is out of plumb a little? Are you going to cut every additional sheet on an angle to get them to fit?

I'll agree, using a level isn't always necessary. It is, however, the most accurate way.

Of course, I could be wrong. But then that would mean that almost EVERY MEMBER IN THE ENTIRE UNITED BROTHERHOOD OF CARPENTERS AND JOINERS OF AMERICA WOULD BE WRONG TOO! They also do it that way!
_____

"If you hang horizontally, who cares if the ceiling isn't level? Hang from the top, scribing to fit the ceiling if it's out of plane. Cut off the bottom edge of the lower sheet so it won't be on the floor, but do not set the bottom sheet first (and level at that!"??

He's one DIY. "It is difficult for one person working alone to hang an 8-ft. piece of drywall . . . even on the UPPER PART OF A WALL." (p. 59) Which do you think would easier by himself? Hanging from the top, or having something to lean on at the bottom?
_____

"What do we do next? Cut the top sheet on a taper to fit? No)"??

Again, exactly what is your point? If you "hang from the top scribing to fit the ceiling" and then "cut the bottom edge of the lower sheet," you cut twice. You also cut the top (tapered) edge of the top horizontal sheet. MY WAY YOU ONLY CUT ONCE. And if by taper you mean "slope," or "angle," this is also easier done from the bottom. See above.

The only way your post makes any sense is if you forgot that the basement ceiling would not be over 8' and thought that you might have to cut a little tapered edge off of a third sheet. But apparently I still gave you too much credit.
_____

"Look, it's nice you want to get involved. But you're still new to the trades."??

Obviously you didn't take the time to check my profile. I've been through a 4-year apprenticeship. I've also been a journeyman for several years. I might be new to this forum, but I've hung more board than you'll ever see in your entire life. That might be bragging, but it's not an exaggeration. Union commercial carpenters hang a lot of board.

For a contractor who's done custom framing for 17 years, you sure don't know very much. You're either a fraud, or a very slow learner. If it's the latter, I feel sorry for your employee's. You're probably the kind that insists they do it wrong and then wonders why they have so many problems.

Let TSJHD1 be an example for those who talk without taking the time to think.
_____

I don't have time to keep explaining such simple concepts to someone who claims to be a professional, so if you'd like the last word . . .

[TSJHD1]

Re: Hanging Drywall for Dummies? Help with corners

You do not plumb a vertical sheet, you go with the framing for the very reason that the framing might be out of plumb. We weren't talking about a gable. There's a lot of methods that may be the most accurate way, but they're unnecessary, like using a level to plumb a vertical sheet. Who assumed he does not have anyone to help hold up an 8' sheet? I only cut twice if the ceiling is not straight enough to use the factory edge-your way will be much harder for him to get a good fit at the ceiling. I checked out your profile and it said apprentice-maybe I missed the part about how many millions of sheets of drywall you've hung. Or what might have thrown me was your constantly reaching for the level and the instruction manual. You have no idea of my trade experience, so don't assume you do. I'll put my skills up against union carpenters any day, do nicer work in the process, be more productive, and make more money in the process.

The Fraudulent Slow Learner.

[jasoncring]

Re: Hanging Drywall for Dummies? Help with corners

There's definitely something in the air as Christmas approaches.... Everybody out there got 5 screaming kids or something?

I've never hung anything bigger than a closet with vertical sheets, but I've never done a basement either (none here). But $.02 follows.

Ceiling sheets up first (assuming taped angle finish). I'm going to say that the ceiling is more or less flat. If the framing's wavy enough to require scribing later on, just correct it before hanging any ceiling sheets.

Stand up (shudder) first wall sheet (width cut if required) and shove it hard to the corner. The opposite recessed edge is now centered on a stud top to bottom. If not, the studs are out of parallel. Hang horizontally or sort out the framing. Use foot jacks, another lever, or fingernails to shove the sheet hard to the ceiling while ensuring contact with the vertical corner. If there is a gap big enough to worry about on 1/2 the wall/ceiling angle, then the vertical corner stud/ceiling intersection must be pretty far off 90 degrees or the corner stud has a wicked camber which doesn't allow contact with the wall sheet top to bottom. It seems unlikely that the sheets have been mismanufactured.

And here's something everyone will disagree with: Just don't join on the studs at all, especially in a damp basement. Use wide durabond backblocks to reinforce the vertical joints.

BTW: PMacken - is that you Wally? How's the wife and kids then?

My trade refrences can be viewed at:
Sub-basement 3 of the Drywall Seraglio
Ludicroustratt, Reykjavick, Iceland