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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
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    664

    Default New HardiPlank Installation Instructions

    It seems that there have been a few changes in the specs.

    They call for latex sealant as caulking now, "moderate contact" of butts and 2" clear to roofing material.

    The way I remember the previous spec (Jan 2005), it was flexible butyl (OSI or equal), 3/8" space at butts and 1"-2" at the roof cuts.

    We will continue to use the OSI because I think it is hard to beat for adhesion. On recent jobs we have used off stud joiners at all butts and went with moderate contact and our flashings were copper with a lot of them exposed. Several standing seam roofs on the building and copper gutters and leaders.

    On all installations in the future, to maintain 2" clear to the roofing material (not roof substrate), unless it's a Grand Manor or Carriage House shingle, every job will require custom flashings (not 5X7 pre bent) if any future job will meet spec.

    The way stuff is slapped up today, the roofer doesn't care what type of siding is going up and will probably install pre bent 5X7 metal flashings with the roof. If the builder is sharp he will have lead or copper with the roofing order. With a spec of 2" clear to all roofing, all step flashings install with HardiPlank will have to be wide enough to extend under the siding and still accommodate the 2" clear space.

    Anyone else running into this flashing concern?

    Henry

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Little River, SC
    Posts
    1,234

    Default Re: New HardiPlank Installation Instructions

    Two inches off the roofing surface seems a bit much. I wonder what the science is behind that?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Des Moines, Iowa
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    3,846

    Default Re: New HardiPlank Installation Instructions

    Henry
    It has never been 3/8" space between that was placement of the nail. The picture was confusing if you just glanced at it as I have so often done. I pointed this out to Dick a While back

    Carl, there is a definate reason behind going back to the two inch clearance. Some time I will post some inspection pictures of failure in Hardie plank due to improper treatment of details
    If you have a wet fall and early freeze and the siding is to close to the roof, where a roof meets a sided wall. THe cement board can take on some water then the freeze expands it and pop goes the siding

    Henry
    As I stated when I get around to posting some of my pictures I think you will see how I have adressed the flashing issue in a couple of different methods with very satisfying results

    sorry to delay the pictures but I need to figure out if I should go back to fototime or just downsize and post
    any suggestions?

    Mark
    Last edited by Mark Parlee; 06-04-2005 at 11:29 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Va.
    Posts
    3,675

    Default Re: New HardiPlank Installation Instructions

    I installed all the Hardie on my dormers 1.5" above the roofing just beause it was easy to lay a 2x4 on the roof to butt the panels to while installing. As far as step flashings, I used the normal step but ran ice and watershield to the bottom of the siding.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Des Moines, Iowa
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    3,846

    Default Re: New HardiPlank Installation Instructions

    Andrew

    I also use the Ice and watershield. I cut it into a twelve inch wide strip with six up on the wall and six on the roof. Then I install the step shingles, some new ones made for the hardie install that are four out and six up. Next I either counter flash with a piece of fascia coil and side up the wall or I lay a peice of Trex down aprox 1/2" off the roof and Z flash the trex then side up the wall
    A bit more time in the detail but worth it for the reslts it achieves

    Mark

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    664

    Default Re: New HardiPlank Installation Instructions

    Hey Mark:

    Thanks for chiming in here. I understand your Trex and Z flashing dormer detail and have to say I am not crazy about it. I think it is a less traditional look than running the claps to the roof line. We have done this with vertical T&G and a piece parallel to the roof but I think this with claps takes away from the clapboard look in any case.

    Are you concerned about using aluminum flashings with the fiber cement? Many projects have 35-40 year roofing shingles and the HardiPlank is touted as a 50 year material...don't you think the flashings should exceed the adjacent materials?

    A lot of builders may claim that they will "isolate" the cement siding and aluminum with membranes or sealants, but you know how that goes. We have been insisting on copper or lead copper for all flashings.

    I guess Hardie will come out with an over sized step flashing that has a special coating (similar to manufactured skylight curbs). I'm curious as to what you are using. If you are installing your windows with exterior casings (brick mold), how are you flashing the heads with the fiber cement?

    So Andrew,

    With 1.5" from the roofing, is your warranty void? Spec was 1"-2" when you bought and installed the product...now it's 2" clear of roofing material.

    http://www.jameshardie.com/homeowner...m_warranty.php

    "The Product must be installed according to Hardie’s printed installation instructions and all building codes adopted by federal, state or local governments or government agencies and applicable to the installation. Failure to install and finish the product per the manufacturer’s published instructions may effect Product performance and voids the Warranty."

    Henry

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Little River, SC
    Posts
    1,234

    Default Re: New HardiPlank Installation Instructions

    It is interesting that the hardie shingle still has the 1" to 2" clearance from the roofing surface installation requirement & the lap siding has a 2" clearance. I wonder why that is?

    I agree with Andrew it is easy to take a 2x4 lay it flat & butt to that. Now I have to add a 1/2" to the 2x4. I wonder for installations (before the 2" clearance change) if they need to be cut back to keep the warranty?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    West Coast of Canada
    Posts
    110

    Default Re: New HardiPlank Installation Instructions

    I wonder for installations (before the 2" clearance change) if they need to be cut back to keep the warranty?[/QUOTE]

    I am willing to bet that if a warranty situation arrises, Hardie will have lots of ways around covering their butt with so called "faulty installation procedures".

    Have been using 1.5" clearance on the roof so far and not really crazy about going to 2".

    Another item i noticed was about electo-galvanized (roofing) nails. Before they stated not to use them and now they say you can use them but you may experience premature failure!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Va.
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    3,675

    Default Re: New HardiPlank Installation Instructions

    Henry,
    I know it is voided but I can only say it is my house and that is the way I thought it looked best. I believe at the time I put the Hardie on they were saying to gap butt joints and corner contacts of which I didn't do that anywhere since I had already experimented with moisture and heat contraction and expansion, neither of which I experienced. The only real reason that I had an oppurtunity to do this was because I was in the middle of closing down a remodeling company and building my house and for which I could not pay attention properly to either thus siding sat around in the rain , the snow, the heat etc. I don't endorse this but Hardie is very tough to endure what I put it through. Best of all, the house looks good, the employees are gone and no more customers call me to tell me at 3:30 in the afternoon when the sun is just right the think they can see a ripple in their wood floor. One thing about Hardie, there is no product that can lay around a job like this stuff did and still be usable. If the material is going to have a problem i would think it already would, Pretty sure I voided the warranty letting it sit around anyway. I used the ice and water shield because there is a bounce factor to rain water bouncing up into the lap voids when it is cut to the 2x4 temporary hold off. Now if that void lined up with a felt seam there could be a leak. I believe Hardies details are arguable since they don't address flashing details anywhere as the questions you have about aluminum are the same questions I had 5 years ago since I started all my siding above a trim band. I emailed and asked the rep about this for months with no answers. So really screw them if they are too scared to address their product mixed to other materials. Have you heard of this material going bad anywhere due to manufacturing....and not including the roofing that was made.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    138

    Default Re: New HardiPlank Installation Instructions

    I don't have anything to add to this thread, but I do have a question or two....what is the issue or problem with using aluminum flashing with the Hardie Plank siding?

    I don't install this stuff anymore but I work for a big carpenter contractor doing cedar exterior trim and the siders are working in close proximity to us using aluminum (over windows and bands) flashing and Hardie Plank siding.

    I know their butt joints are tight when they install and also their pieces between widows and corners are very tight....sometimes they have to slightly bend the piece to fit it in between corners and windows.

    Is this a disaster in the making?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    NOLA
    Posts
    4,172

    Default Re: New HardiPlank Installation Instructions

    From http://www.cement.org/masonry/cc_al_frames.asp

    "Architectural aluminum is widely used for window and door frames because it is attractive, durable, and requires little maintenance (see Fig. 1 and inset). However, unprotected aluminum interacts with cement-based materials, sometimes resulting in severe frame damage. This article provides guidance for protecting aluminum frames from mortar used in masonry walls. "

    Bill R

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Des Moines, Iowa
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    3,846

    Default Re: New HardiPlank Installation Instructions

    Carl
    Hardie is the midst of changing their details
    Right now don't be suprised if it changes a little more
    There is a new manual out called "best practices" it gives a little more clairification as to some of the details that I at times have attempted to describe

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    664

    Default Re: New HardiPlank Installation Instructions

    Mark:
    How do you feel about the use of aluminum flashings with the cement product? The larger step flashing pieces you describe, are these being retailed now, or are these your own shop work.
    Henry

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Des Moines, Iowa
    Posts
    3,846

    Default Re: New HardiPlank Installation Instructions

    Henry up untill now I had always used the 8x8 prebent alum. step flashings. I have never observed a problem. The new larger peices are being produced by a supplier to one of our lumberyards. With the new "best practices" way of doing things they want a flashing behind each butt joint, in the manual called a "slipsheat"
    One of the local lumberyards have had some of these made up.They used alum colored coil stock whit on one side teratone on the other, this is to prevent oxidization of the metal. I prefer the offstud joiners myself but they are rapidly becoming not available. I have never observed any problems with raw alum anywhere used in conjunction cement board siding. Have you?
    everyone calls this concrete board, even I have. It is not, it's cementboard. I understand the potential for some metals to react with concrete and it's components,but are they the same properties as cement board,or are the names just causing confusion? This could warrant a little discussion. What are the differances between cement board and concrete in their makeup?

    Mark

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Georgia
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    1,819

    Default Re: New HardiPlank Installation Instructions

    Concrete contains cement. It's the cement (Portland) that reacts with the aluminum. Maybe anodized aluminum doesn't react so badly, I don't know.

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