Ceramic tile over vinyl on concrete slab

[fixitall]

I am looking for opinions on setting porcelain tiles over well bonded vinyl in a kitchen with a concrete slab floor.
Years ago I labored to scrape vinyl tiles from concrete slab in a bathroom and set porcelain in thinset mortar. A friend of my client;"the flooring expert"; thought better to leave vinyl tiles and set the porcelain over them.
Did the 2nd bathroom in same home weeks later "his" way.
Both floors look and perform the same .
I now have a request to set a kitchen and laundry area which has sheet vinyl on concrete slab. All vinyl is "securely" fastened to the concrete. The tiles are 13" and will be set with a 1/16" grout line.

[DaveMM]

Re: Ceramic tile over vinyl on concrete slab

Tileing over vinyl even "well secured" is a BAD idea. what is condition of slab under vinyl?? Who knows unless your superman. They do make producls for this install and it does work SOMETIMES but a pro would not do it to many risks involved. How old is vinyl? Asbestos could be a factor. You should remove vinyl and adhesive for a great install. Is vinyl coushened? Dont want to be doom and gloom but after 30 years I know better. Just my opinion. A job worth doing is worth doing right!!!

[fixitall]

Re: Ceramic tile over vinyl on concrete slab

DaveMM,
Thanks for your reply. The home is only 15 years old so there is no asbestos issue. If I find cracks in the concrete what is my best solution for isolation?
Jim

[philipS]

Re: Ceramic tile over vinyl on concrete slab

"You should remove vinyl and adhesive for a great install."

Yes. Not fun but worth it!!!

What happens if/when the vinyl underneath becomes "UN"-secured? Then you have floating tile and cracking grout joints.

I pulled up a bunch of vinyl recently to make way for ceramic, and in one spot there was a previous leak that never fully dried, so I'm glad I was able to see the slab and dry it out before I put in the tiles.

[biljac]

Re: Ceramic tile over vinyl on concrete slab

Would removing the tile be recomended for the vinyl asbestos tile as well? I have this on my personal house and I was going to use the Schluter-Ditra. The Tile is from the early 60's and sound. I see more cons than pros removing it, but I'm a window guy not tile.

Bill

[cwblues]

Re: Ceramic tile over vinyl on concrete slab

Hello new member here. I have installed tile over vinyl on slab flooring numerous times with no problems. I would cut out a small section and determine the quality of the bonding agent.As well remove any bad spots. In years past we even had vinyl installed on new slab to act as a cheap isolation membrane. I usually rough up the floor with a sander and use additive. As for asbestos tiles these can be more problematic, and I have rented a floor chipper, then used a 2 part thinset (Very expensive)recommended for asphalt based adhesive. It all depends on the condition of slab/vinyl. Dont know if the tile council approves but this has worked for me.

[SFCWaggs]

Re: Ceramic tile over vinyl on concrete slab

cwblues

My situation is the same, 15 year old house with vinyl on concrete slab, glued down really good, on kitchen floor. I scrapped it off the 2 bathroom floors and I don't want to scrap the big kitchen floor. I want to put down porcelian tile in the kichen.

You said that you usually rough up the floor with a sander and use additive.

What additive do you use?

[mbyrne]

Re: Ceramic tile over vinyl on concrete slab

Tile over vinyl is a crap shoot that puts your reputation at risk and entails considerable exposure - not just for the ability of the tile installation to "stick", but also to the potential presence of asbestos.

If you decide to remove the vinyl - which I recommend - do NOT use any chemical strippers as they may provide even less grip. As well, don't use a sander to prep the slab as this will only burnish the surface and reduce bond strength. I prefer a bush-hammer. Yes, big, clunky, noisy, and it requires using protecting padding on surrounding finished surfaces, but I have never seen tiles installed over its rough surface fail.

Trick? After scraping the floor clean, spray a light coat of paint on the surface of the slab. This will prevent removing too much concrete and creating dips and birdbaths. The paint provides a visible clue that the top 1/16-inch of the slab has been removed.