Wal mart, Good or Bad?

[Dick Seibert]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...ws/lehman.html

[Scrapr]

Walmart is good for the US.
My bonafides are:
I have been in a Walmart 1 time. Have never bought anything there. Not my kind of store. But they are amazing. I have not been in a Kmart, Sears, Target or Circuit City lately either. LOL Ask me about 7-11's though.

This article is long and I only skimmed most of it. I don't think there was anything surprising in the article. Walmart pressures vendors??? Who'd a thunk! Obviously this former manager has n agenda. And maybe a union would be the right thing for Walmart. Only the employees know.

But what this article leaves out is the benefit to the American people. (edit: just noticed the remarks at the bottom) LOW prices. And better competition. Competiotion makes every company that competes with Walmart better. And better might mean they go out of business. As a small business owner there is nothing better than competing against a multinational. You can work that angle all day long. Because you can provide SERVICE that Walmart can not.
Low prices put money in every ones pocket. Even those who don't shop at Walmart.

As for suppliers choking on Walmart "asking" for price decreases. They know that they climbed in the viper pit when they first signed up with Walmart. And more business only makes it worse. They should have a plan for when Walmart drops them (or they drop Walmart), Because you know it's coming.

I have a feeling that Walmart will implode because of thier growth. They are handling thier growth well right now. But I have a feeling that they are headed for a fall. Because stores that "push" merchandise on consumers are not meeting a need. And by loading stores w/cheap stock is pushing mercandise. But don't ask me to put money on it.

Greed is good.

[Allan Edwards]

http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/qui...freq=2&time=13

Stock up 6 fold in 10 years.

[Kraig Anthony]

Dick,

Don't be fooled, WAL*MART is no different than Target, Home Depot, or any other big box store. They just happen to be a favorite target for the left because (1) they are the biggest, and (2) they do things like refuse to sell music with profane lyrics, on what grounds I am not sure.

If somebody finds a better way to do business(read: more profitable), then they will make there way to the forefront of American retail. Until then every body will follow WAL*MART's lead.

For the record I can't stand WAL*MART. The stores are dirty, the products are cheap, and there facilities add absolutely nothing aesthtically pleasing to the built environmet. I refuse to shop there, or let my wife shop there. I would rather pay an extra $.08 for my Sharpies.

I see there product as the antithesis of what I like to offer as an end product. They are driven by nothing but making a profit. And there way to make a profit is to sell cheap by buying cheaper. This means grinding down vendors, buying from third world countries, and keeping wages low.

When a potential customer starts to grind me down on price, I often bring up WAL*MART. I let them know if they are looking for the lowest price, they are going to get the lowest quality service, and end product, put together by the lowest paid labor as well(just like WAL*MART). If that is what they value then I don't think I am a good fit for there project.

Unfortunately, when it comes to retail shopping, we should never overestimate the taste of the American people.

[Andrew R.]

There is a certain way you shop in Wal mart . You push your cart down the middle of the aisle and always drag your feet making a shuffling noise. You need to be 100 pounds overweight and wear really tight sweat pants. Make sure you watch the checkout girls because if they didnt have that dividing bar they would ring up you and 5 people behind you. These girls stay busy talking to the next cashier while you stand there like a dummy waiting to pay for your Chinese cornucopia of crap you just bought. They have the best deals on socks and belts.

[jwork101]

I'm just out of college, and Walmart at college was the only thing, and a savior. Now that I'm back home and making money doing this I always go to a Target given the choice.
I don't like Walmart very much, seems they have some real bad hires and the stores are never cleaned/organized.
I read the article Dick posted earlier today, and I'm sure to some extent HD/Lowes/Target do the same things, but I see a higher qualifty product and people at those stores. Granted, HD is slipping, not that I ever liked them that much, but there used to be one or two good retired tradespeople in the store or at the pro desk. The guys at the "Pro" desk now can't even remember my name and I'm in there every other day picking up little things for our projects.
Target seems to hire the rich suburban kids who want a job for fun, granted their work ethic might not be great, but at least they can hold a conversation and give me a little bit of help.
I'll try not to complain tho, as its just like McDonalds...everytime I want to complain I just think....where are ya gonna find a rich white suburban kid to take that job on?
Heck, I cant even find anyone my age or in colllege that is willing to swing a hammer for twice or three times what McDonalds pays...
Ugh..I'm heading into the no young people in the trades discussion, I think weve had enough of that here.

Cliffs Notes:
Walmart- Bad, Very bad.

[Ode...]

Isn't the issue here really marketing plans, or just plain marketing? Do you connect the issue of low prices, just do it, or get a Mac attack today with the product, or the ad campaign?
Obviously, these have the best marketing plans, and these programs are VERY successful. I think, this is where it is at here.

It is just marketing. AND, most builders as well most individuals do not realize we all have one going now. We only need to know if it is working or not?
Wal mart is great at marketing. Perhaps they are the best at it nowadays. Yes, when they lose this, they will again fall by the wayside in some matter. Maybe, they have learned to adjust according to the economy?

[Paul Conrad]

Walmart is doing to their suppliers exactly what the clients do to us on occaision. You know the kind. They want a door installed. They say, "The door only cost $99, why can't you install it for $115, you'll still make a nice little profit." When I try to explain that $15 will not even cover my gas and drive time they get bent out of shape. I could slash my prices and overhead and probably survive on $15,000 a year. But I kind of like my nice house, big screen TV, vacations a couple times a year, and driving a nice truck, and I think at the end of the day I deserve that. The advantage I have is that they cannot go to China and get their door hung by some guy making 6 cents an hour. Walmart can and does hold out until they get the 6 cents an hour guy making their product. I know that markets try and find their most efficient state, but the market should not be strong armed into it by the biggest bully on the block. Walmart seems to be squeezing these things out of their workers, and the workers of their suppliers. While I admit that most Walmart employees probably don't work as hard as I do, they do still work and deserve to be compensated fairly for it. I live in a small town and Walmart is the only place around to get a lot of the goods they sell. It is a fourty minute drive to the next town. I make that drive, but their are a lot of people here who can't, and a lot of places have been put out of business by Wally World. Just in the last year we went from 5 grocery stores to 2, and the biggest grocery store in town now is Walmart.

[Dick Seibert]

The advantage I have is that they cannot go to China and get their door hung by some guy making 6 cents an hour.

Hold on Paul, I don't know where you live, but here in the Bay Area competition is bringing the cheap labor illegally into the country to accomplish the exact same thing that Wal Mart is accomplishing. Tract builders, and many other builders, are hiring *subcontractors* (nothing but labor brokers) who provide $15 an hour labor without benefits, taxes, or insurance to do what we used to do. This is the same business model used by farmers now to pick their grapes, lettuce and other produce, they hire labor brokers to provide the illegal labor to insulate themselves from liability (remember the infamous Juan Corona case?¹).

Until such time as labor brokerage, in all of it's forms and permutations, is made illegal, we will still be bringing the cheap foreign labor into the United States to do our work. Yes some people, people that want cheap merchandise, will be happy, but the cost to society and the taxpayer is huge as these people drain the social resources while immense profits are sent back to Bentonville, Atlanta, or wherever else these unethical business are located. Just walk into your local Home Depot, and see all of the former contractors wearing orange aprons, and getting their health care from the public hospitals with their Medi-Cal cards (I don't know what they are called in other states).


¹ http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shad...77/corona.html

[Jerrald Hayes]

Hold on Paul, I don't know where you live, but here in the Bay Area competition is bringing the cheap labor illegally into the country to accomplish the exact same thing that Wal Mart is accomplishing. Tract builders, and many other builders, are hiring *subcontractors* (nothing but labor brokers) who provide $15 an hour labor without benefits, taxes, or insurance to do what we used to do. This is the same business model used by farmers now to pick their grapes, lettuce and other produce, they hire labor brokers to provide the illegal labor to insulate themselves from liability (remember the infamous Juan Corona case?¹).

Dick while you cited the Juan Corona case in from the farming and agriculture industry can you cite a real genuine case of this actually happening in the building & remodeling industry where labor brokers are bringing in off shore labor. I'm not talking about incidents where contractors are exploiting illegals who have come here on there own but labor brokers who are using what you are intimating as a business model and/or strategy. I for one have a hunch you are imagining that or doing what is called "climbing the ladder of inference" and describing a situation that really doesn't exist.

I read all the industry rags, blogs and RSS news feeds and I don't recall ever hearing about anything like what you are intimating.

That said it is entirely plausible and in fact probable that there already are or will soon be pre-hung doors (and other building products) that are coming from China.

[Dick Seibert]

Jerrald:

As I understand it, there is an "underground railroad" where after the illegals pay someone to get them across the border into Texas, Arizona, and Southern California (you never hear about New Mexico, apparently they are doing a better job), they are then herded, jam-packed, into windowless vans and transported into the Bay Area. We usually only hear about this when one of the vans crashes and several are killed or maimed. They are then deposited into neighborhoods, like Concord's Monument Boulevard, where the labor subcontractors pick them up and employ them for cash, either by the hour or on a piece-work basis. These "subcontractors" have contracts with tract, and other, builders.

My understanding is also that many of the "subcontractors" are legal citizens of Mexican descent, who make routine visits to Mexico recruiting with promises of employment when they arrive here. There isn't too much published about this because of the political climate, one Concord policeman recently stationed himself outside a Concord Mexican store proceeding to cite drivers for overdue registration (a common problem for illegals since they can't buy insurance and register their cars). There was a hue and cry from the Mexican community, and the officer was suspended for "racial profiling".

[Sonny Lykos]

I view Wal-Mart as one large warehouse, similar to other big boxes.

I go there for selection and terrific prices, not for highly educated cashiers or cleanliness.

I also visit Target, and K-Mart and for the same reasons.

Since I do not "own" my wife, I would never tell her where to buy or where not to buy.

Last time I read the many articles about Wal-Mart, I never read about their suppliers having a gun to their head forcing them to sell to Wal-Mart.

Never read about any employees of their having a gun to their head either. This is America. As such, we all have "options" and "choices" either as consumers, suppliers, whomever. And that applies to the big boxes and the prostitutes. Opportunities and choices. Everyone has both.

And this is not a "values" issue, a immigration issue, a social issue, or a union issue. It's business and about as simple as it can get, and when I buy from them for personal or business reasons, I'm still making a conscious "business" decision. Just as when I visit Office Depot or Office Max. And another simple fact of business or economics is that I would indeed be stupid to pay any more than I have too regardless of the product or service.

Finally, both Barb and I could care less who may see us at Wal-Mart (neither of is are that shallow) or at Dillards (5 silk shirts on sale @ $25/each) for that matter. We follow the deals.

[Bob Kovacs]

Several people have commented that the WalMart merchandise is just "cheap overseas garbage". Granted, I'm sure there are items that are produced specifically for WalMart, and they very well may be garbage. But there are also many name-brand items for sale there, at prices far below what you pay anywhere else.

So, as Sonny said, you can go there for the prices, just like you can go to Home Depot- not for the cheery, knowledgable staff. The key is knowing what you want, what it's worth, and what to avoid. My wife buys all of our laundry detergent, diapers, paper products, and that sort of stuff there, at prices that are a good 20% what those items would cost at the supermarket. I'm talking about namebrand stuff too- Tide, Luvs, etc. It's just like Home Depot- a 5 gallon pail of USG blue top is $8.00 at HD, or $11.50 at my local yard. If I need a house full of lumber, I'm going to the lumber yard- if I need 5 gallons of mud on a Sunday afternoon, I'm heading to HD.

As Sonny said (gosh- that's two agreements with Sonny in one post...lol). No one's holding a gun to an employee's head to work there, or to a supplier's head to supply goods. Everyone's got choices. I just shop there for the prices.

Bob

[Allan Edwards]

Jerrald, I liked your

“doing what is called "climbing the ladder of inference" and describing a situation that really doesn't exist.”

I think Dick does that a lot. Some homeowner buys a house with bad flashing, has water leak, does some damage, sues builder, builder is a crook, builder should go to jail, all builders should go to jail, the NAHB is a front for organized smuggling. Dick makes huge illogical leaps on many issues.

"climbing the ladder of inference" I like that!

Living and working in a very active market, in a hot bed of available Mexican labor (legal and illegal), I think I can speak to this issue intelligently. Like you Jerrald, I don’t think what Dick described is a business model being followed by contractors or subcontractors. Sure, you can find coyotes bringing in illegals, happens everyday, but I don’t see that many in the homebuilding business. I would give a real educated guess that less than 5% of the labor being used in homebuilding is illegals. Some would say that is 5% too much, but given the shortage of available labor, that is not a very high number. I see the same guys being used by my subs job after job, year after year, not this transient type activity as Dick describes.

Where I see illegals being used in construction is in general labor type jobs, both residential and commercial, in fact probably more commercial, usually hard physical labor jobs where these guys are needed for only a few days, they are picked up daily and paid cash for a 1-2 day job. Not in more skilled type jobs used in homebuilding.

About once a year I need some laborers, I’ve picked these guys up. Pay them daily, buy them lunch. When you really get close to them and ask what their story is, it is really a pretty sad situation. These guys need work to feed themselves or their families. They are just honest, hard working young men trying to survive.

[Dick Seibert]

Allan:

On all of the tracts going up on our outskirts, and almost all of the few custom homes going up here, you would be hard pressed to find one Anglo on the framing crews. No one speaks English on these jobs, and I would assume if they were legal citizens that they could at least speak some English. Superintendents are taking courses in Spanish in order to communicate with them, supply houses have English/Spanish books on the counters so contractors can learn to communicate with their crews.

You certainly make light of some very serious quality situations, like leaking flashings that lead to million dollar mold claims, I wonder why you dismiss these problems so cavalierly?

What do we do, allow the situation to continue and just sue the builders that employ them for their faulty work, and the rest of us pay the added insurance costs stemming from all of that faulty work? Should the government ramp up the criminal prosecution of the contractors that employ the aliens and fail to pay taxes and insurance on them?