Please offer advice......

[Jeremy D]

I would like to begin by saying I have been a visitor here for a few years although not a frequent contributor. This site is really an asset to anyone in the trades. OK, enough butt-kissing, on with my problem/question..... ;)

I cant figure out where to start so I'll begin here... My absolute favorite job is a Bathroom remodel. If I had to decide on one job to do forever it would be high-end Bath remodels. The most gratifying aspect of a Bath redo for me is the Tile/Stone work involved. Thats where I screwed up with my business plan.

I named and marketed my self as a "Tile Contractor". The problem with that is simple. While tile is the most rewarding thing for me, labeling my self a "Tile Contractor" just seems too restricting, actually to the point of boredom. Not to mention some folks dont seem to be cut out for crawling on their knees six days a week. I am one of them. Sometimes its nice to stand up and frame a wall, move a window, hang a door......

That brings us to another issue. I have had several clients request that I do additional work on their homes. This work has ranged from decks to doors, to replacing windows and vinyl siding. I strive for perfection regardless what the task, and sometimes make less that expected, but I walk away satisfied.

While doing Bath renovations is my favorite, I also really enjoy other challenges, such as basement finishing. The things I dont ever handle, due to lack of knowledge or legal reasons are: HVAC, Electrical, some plumbing where venting or supply etc.. come into play, roofing, and on occasion something comes up where I have a more experienced framer sub that portion. Most everything else my helper and I do ourselves.

My question for all of you is this. If you were in my place, how would you promote your self? You would market your business as a ..............? I am really hoping for some great ideas from all of you, as thats generally what I see given.

All advice GREATLY appreciated!!!

[Andrew R.]

The Bath Man,,,Bath and a Half....Bath guys......If you want to be it in your town, I think its a great specialty. Even though I remodeled many baths as a full service remodeler, its a specialty that needs multi talent employees or owner and most remodelers dont have that. My advise is to take as much of that market you can and not diversify, concentrate on the niche and wear a dusk mask. Job sign shaped like a bath tub or a toilet?

[ChrisP]

Maybe you should promote yourself as a "remodeling specialist"
Specializing in kitchens, baths and all remodeling design start to finish. Promote what you are most interested in- (Kitchen and bath bring the highest dollars per square foot.)

[Jeremy D]

What size of population would you say would sustain a niche such as a Bath specialist? That is another concern I have.

[Mark G]

Population is just one part of the demographic to look at. Income level vs. cost of living, age of the housing stock and such are important factors, too. How you identify your market and reach it is important, too.

To answer your question, I think 75,000-100,000 population would be a lower limit.

[Andrew R.]

Jeremy,
if your message is baths in your advertisement, I think less than 50,000 population. I say this if you are seriously trying to be the bath guy in your area. I am in a population of 2 million and there is only 1 guy really focused on baths and 50 other companies who advertise baths and other stuff. All baths break, rot ,need new colors, leak, stink and crack sooner or later. They are a priority to get fixed when they do go bad. You need to set up financing for the blue collar bath customers and you need to have off the shelf ready made proposals. I read once that 70% of all baths in the U.S. were between 5x7 and 5x10. I would rather remodel Johnny Lunchbuckets bath than Mrs. Snobs luxury change order personal spa.

[Ode...]

Yet another approach for a different area...
Go for the bath remodeling only. Expand the sale from this point by saying, "Yes, we do that too". It expands you to room additions, (baths), and many other taskes within their home. The handyman companies at all levels are doing this to stay alive, and doing quite well at it too. So what they lied, they stay very busy, and are doing great with less overhead.
While others tout 80k plus baths, I seriously doubt that we could find one for that price in our area for 99% of the baths. Andrew R.'s method works though I think that he and Mark could be a little low on populations for this area type client. We are in a very cheap minded area of about a million within reach. Preiously within a market area of about a 100k, it worked great. Your concern has to be when the downsizing of the economy comes into play. The quesion is, am I within an area that will support my business, (one more time)?
It depends upon the local market. I have been in eight different states. Seven area states were similar and easy, but this one in miserable on being cheap and yet demanding quality, so the prospect lead and say.

[Jeremy D]

Hey Ode, I have been thinking along the lines of your post for a while. The concern I have is "What jobs will I NOT being called to look at, becase my ad says basically 'Baths only'"?

Think about it. If you were looking for someone to finish your basement, would you call the guy advertising as a "Bath&Tile" specialist? I probably wouldnt, and thats where I am coming from. I am not 100% sure that our local economy, coupled with our local population, can/will provide year-round work for someone offering such a limited service. It seems as though I am answering my own questions, and yet things arent becoming any more clear???

How would one make a presentation that would lure any and all calls pertaining to Bath and Tile work and yet still garner some calls for other work?

P.S. Where are the colorful thoughts from Dick, Bob K, Sonny, Ed, etc........

[Bob Kovacs]

I dunno about my thoughts being "colorful", but I'll give them just the same....lol.

I think you can definitely make an excellent living doing "baths only". As was said previously, every house has at least one (many have several), and the styles change seemingly every day. Couple that with all the newer homes that were built with greenboard in the showers, and you've got tile work galore in any tract over about 5 years old.

I visited my aunt while I was in Florida this week, and she showed me the bathroom she had recently had redone. Her house is around 15 years old, and the master bath had to be refinished at about 6 years old due to the greenboard deteriorating. The main bath survived this long only because it seldom gets used for showers. It was re-done both for style updating, and because the greenboard was finally getting spongy. As you can imagine, there's tons of opportunity for the guy who puts the "Acme Bath Remodeling" sign on her front lawn- she's on the main street into her subdivision of around 150 homes, all built at the same time.

As far as "missing out on other types of work", who cares? If you have a big enough area, and you provide great service and value, you'll have more work than you can shake a stick at. If the economy slows as some say it will, and you need to expand, you've got a whole clientle already satisfied, just waiting for the little "Hi, Mrs Jones. We not do kitchens, additions, blah, blah, blah" letter.

If it were me, I'd do as Andrew said, and assemble some "package deals" at a few different price points. Pre-price a complete tearout, re-drywall, tile, new fixtures and finishes- use a plain-jane white package with 4x4 tile, an upgrade w/ corian counters and nicer tile, and a full-blown stone tile package. Get some photo-realistic renderings done if you don't have real photos of these types of jobs yet. Then go sell, sell, sell dammit!!!

And be sure to send me a royalty check when you hit it big.....lol

Bob

[Allan Edwards]

There's a store called "Bed, Bath, and Beyond". How about "Kitchens, Baths, and Beyond"? "Baths and Beyond"?

[Bob Kovacs]

If you combine "Bed, Bath, and Beyond" and "The Great Indoors", do you get "Beds, Baths, and The Great Beyond"????

[Sonny Lykos]

[QUOTE=Jeremy DMy absolute favorite job is a Bathroom remodel. If I had to decide on one job to do forever it would be high-end Bath remodels. The most gratifying aspect of a Bath redo for me is the Tile/Stone work involved. [/QUOTE]

Stick with the bath remodels since that is your first love. I'll try to come up with a few suggestions for a later post.

1. What is the population of your area?
2. Blue, white collar, professional or what is the mix?
3. Many professionals there?
4. City or rural area where you live?
5. Competitors for bath remodels and are they good or not?
6. College or university near your home?

[m beezo]

I know what you are talking about. I have often wondered how you can be a speciality contractor. I understand the plumbing and electrical and roofing specialties and other areas. But I have often felt and I suppose that your customers may be pushing this point, "if you can do a bathroom then why can't you do a room addition or a kitchen or a basement?" Wearing too many hats is not always the way to go it seems to me who tries to do just that. I feel that somedays I am as the expression goes, "jack of all, master of none." CAse in point is this weeks work load.

Monday-finish painting the exterior of a house
Tuesday-install all the front porch support columns and handrails
Wed-build the steps and install the posts and handrails
Thur-begin to build headers and corners for a room addition
Fri-cut out drywall and tile floor for a plumbing contractor to do repairs, replace porch columns for a concrete contractor that had removed the concrete flooring.

All of these jobs required some different tools, some different skills, different materials. This translates to a van load of different items to carry or to go purchase for that particular job. On all of them I made money. On all of them I was doing almost none of the same tasks that week. For instance the stairs. I cut and install about 2 sets of stairs usually for decks or porches a year. Each time I have to get out the books and restudy how it is done to hone up on the procedure. Then when I do it I still scratch my head and worry until it is all done if it is going to be right. I do not make much money on this task because it is one that I do not do often enough. I do enough painting that I always make money on that task. So do I just become a painter. Not for me since I enjoy the variety. Do I find another guy to build my stairs for me. Possibly but probably not for me. I find that I usually eat up my time which translates to money by making calls to the guy, checking his work, wondering if he is doing it right, scheduling him.

I really think that one of the biggest questions is what do you enjoy? As a self employed person enjoying your job certianly helps me to go to work. That is more of an incentive at times than the paycheck. If you hate the type of job, for me it is roofing, then it is a struggle to get to that job. If I enjoy doing a bathroom them I want to get out of bed and go do that job. Being a self starter is a big part of this work and enjoying what you do helps. I think it is part of the creative gene that I seem to have. I like to start something and see what it turns into.

A couple of years back in JLC there was an article about a company that was titled something like 5 day bath remodel or at least that was the main drift of the article. He had a couple of set plans for the bathrooms. All white fixtures, tile floor and white walls, tear out to the studs, same shower valve and faucet for a set price. Upgrades were things like different types of tlle or set on a 45 and the like. But his system as I recall it was they always used the same brand of toilet, faucet, shower valve, tile, light kit, fan so after you installed several of them you knew the ins and outs of the materials. No need to read the directions, just grab it and go. Since he had a set plan when he went to talk to the customer he showed them a "package" for so much, upgrades are another cost. Customer basically knew what it would cost when the guy walked out of the house after meeting with them. It especially worked for him in that he was working in an are like Bob talked about. Bunches of houses all built about the same time often by the same contractor so the bathrooms all failed about the same time or at least all needed updated at the same time.

This sounds like a good niche to be in. My only other concern is if there is enough do get into this niche? I know that is one of the reasons that my work week looks like it does sometimes. I take on a job that is not as profitable or I am not as profieceint at to fill in a day of work. You may have to do that for a while until you get established as the bathroom guy to call. One other thing-the weather should almost never effect you since most bathrooms you would be in a cooled space for the summer and a heated space for the winter.

[Jeremy D]

1. What is the population of your area?
2. Blue, white collar, professional or what is the mix?
3. Many professionals there?
4. City or rural area where you live?
5. Competitors for bath remodels and are they good or not?
6. College or university near your home?[/QUOTE]

1> Most of my work is in/around Metropolitan Louisville Ky, which includes a couple of counties in Southern Indiana. The population for the entire area is around 1.5 million, however that is spread over a wide area, and I dont know how to reach out to all of them? Here is some information on the population;

"As of the 2000 census, Louisville had a total population of 256,231. However, in 2003, the city and Jefferson County merged into a single government named Louisville-Jefferson County Metro Government (official long form) and Louisville Metro (official short form), resulting in a city populated with approximately 700,000 residents. The Louisville metropolitan area (not to be confused with Louisville Metro) is the largest in Kentucky, and the metropolitan population of 1.5 million includes the southern Indiana counties of Clark, Floyd, Washington and Harrison."

2> Here is some information on demographics:

"As of 2000, there are 693,604 people, 287,012 households, and 183,113 families residing in the county. The population density is 695/km² (1,801/mi²). There are 305,835 housing units at an average density of 307 persons/km² (794 persons/mi²). The racial makeup of the county is 77.38% White, 18.88% African American, 0.22% Native American, 1.39% Asian, 0.04% Pacific Islander, 0.68% from other races, and 1.42% from two or more races. 1.78% of the population are Hispanic or Latino of any race.

There are 287,012 households out of which 29.60% have children under the age of 18 living with them, 45.20% are married couples living together, 14.70% have a woman whose husband does not live with her, and 36.20% are non-families. 30.50% of all households are made up of individuals and 10.30% have someone living alone who is 65 years of age or older. The average household size is 2.37 and the average family size is 2.97.

In the county the population is spread out with 24.30% under the age of 18, 8.90% from 18 to 24, 30.40% from 25 to 44, 22.80% from 45 to 64, and 13.50% who are 65 years of age or older. The median age is 37 years. For every 100 females there are 91.60 males. For every 100 females age 18 and over, there are 87.60 males.

The median income for a household in the county is $39,457, and the median income for a family is $49,161. Males have a median income of $36,484 versus $26,255 for females. The per capita income for the county is $22,352. 12.40% of the population and 9.50% of families are below the poverty line. Out of the total people living in poverty, 18.10% are under the age of 18 and 8.80% are 65 or older."


3> I would say yes to there being a fair number of professionals.

4> I actually live in a rural area. The town I live in (population about 6000) can not support bath and tile work only. I am an hour away from the Indiana side of metropolitan Louisville. This is where I get the majority of work. From the cities that are considered part of metropolitan Louisville, yet are on the Indiana side.

5> As far as competitors, I do not know of anyone specializing in Bathrooms. Most of the remodelers I do know do OK work until it comes to tile. Then its "over green board with mastic". Of course they also work for less money than I am trying to charge. Reason being, it takes me twice as long to properly tile a tub enclosure than it does the guy slopping it in. Oh well.

6> Actually there are a few State and local colleges in this area. Since you bring up colleges Sonny, another area comes to mind which is actually north of me, and its a place I have never worked nor advertised. The name of the place is Bloomington, Indiana, and it is basically a college town of about 70,000. And a lot easier drive to work. Would you run a small ad there and test the waters?

OK guys I realize this was a book and I apologise. Thanks for the excellent advice and keep it coming as long as you have it!

[Aaron Skoczen]

Jeremey,

I agree with the rest on the need for specialists in the bath industry. We are a full remodeling contractor and occasionally do bathroom remodels, but don't like them becasue my guys are not "good and fast". Your concerns about limiting yourself are valid though.

What if you can't expand any more because you've topped out your population with doing just baths (not likely but possible)?
What if you have a tough time getting started becasue you do "just baths"?
What if you just get bored doing "just baths" and want to do more?

I hae two suggestions for you. What you can do it essentially enable yourslef to create as many companies as you'd llike. Create a corpoaration name say "Jeremy, LLC" or Jeremy, Inc" whatever. Then create a DBA under "Jeremy, Inc" called "All Baths" if you get bored or need to do other work then also create a DBA called "Jeremy's General Contracting" or "Basements are us", whatever you want. All the DBA's are practicing under "Jeremy, Inc" thus you only need one business license, contractor's license, etc (Taxes will become difiicult but thats what your accountant is for).

Another route to go is you let your marketing be specific and not your name. I'm going to use Sonny as an example. "The Lykos Group"??? What does that guys do? Well, most of us on these boards no exactly what Sonny Lykos does even though his name does not describe it. Your name does not have to define what you do. Start up "Jeremy Contracting, Inc." then advertise as you want. If you want to do bathromms, the put that in big letters. If you want to do basements, then put that in big letters.

Oh, and it sound like you are referring to the phone book. What if you advertised for baths only in the phone book and then want something else. Well forget the phone book. At least here in AZ is does you more harm than good. Maybe use it for the first year or two to get going, but dump it and start going off of referrals, direct mailing, etc.

One last thing, I came across an idea in the book "The E-myth" that I feel is great for a bathroom or kitchen company. The "E-myth" uses an example of a company called "Three Day Kitchens" The company had trained their employeess and set up systems so that they could remodel a kitchen in three days flat. Now that is pretty tough and I personally might go for a five day kitchen or bath, but man, that would sell here in AZ like hot cakes. A lot of people are concerend about cost, but A LOT of people are concerend about "how long you're going to be tearing up my bathroom before I can use it again".

Good luck!

Aaron Skoczen
Skoczen Developments, Inc
DBA Skoczen Construction