Hurricane Ivan

[Andrew R.]

I hope this thing doesnt hit but if it does we need to learn and rethink building. This mini mansion craze across the Mid Atlantic is ridiculous to think all the money is being poured into houses to make them pretty and not strong. I built my house to take a hurricane and I cant get any reduction on insurance, in fact Im sure my rates will go up after the claims are made. I framed houses in the early 80s that were styrofoam and vinyl siding with a few metal straps here and there. Framers drove the anchor bolts down through the block so they didnt need to use a drill, inspections are done after walls were insulated anyway so no rejections for that. Never saw a rafter tie until 1996. A lot of framers hand nailed and toenailed studs with 8 sinkers. There are thousands of theses houses here. Will we continue to think Dade County Florida is the only place that needed the new codes? Im so sick of seeing builders and their customers spend 10,000.00 for granite tops or put a 12 piece cornice on and still sheath walls with softboard sheathing.

[dakota]

I completly agree. But this is not liminted to Flordia. People want to pay 150 for a 200K home and sell it in 2 years for 215,K and buy an other larger home for 155K. Work like you described is why some areas have building officals that are so strict you can hardly do your work.


I have to balme the hurcane's on a friend that lives on the west coast of florida. He was complaining work was slow and was looking forward to the first hurcane of the season ( he dose underwater salvage operations). GOOD LUCK if you are in the way of Ivan

[Ode...]

You can bet I am a member of this choir. Andrew, you describe exactly the building methods used here for years too. And dakota, you describe the mental attitudes. It really griped me when the appraisers would not mark up their appraisals of the new homes built better. Realtors, new home builders, and remodelers are pawns of the appraisers here. Remodelers can escape this to a large extent. They have a mentally different clientelle in many instances. This is why here, we remodel and do not build new homes.
I do note that when we have winds in excess of 35 mph, things start coming apart. It just happened again with hurrican Frances here. Yes, there was a lot of problems in FL, but inland there are also problems because of the way the homes are built.
I know of million dollar homes with the mudsills secured to the blocks with only nails or one block via an anchor.

[bradesp]

A timely thread! I've just closed on a 2nd row lot at Ocean Isle Beach NC (near the NC/SC state line). I'm an Ex-Builder (high-end, stick built stuff), but couldn't make a living... so went back to my primary career - software / consulting.

Anyway, I'm still a gear-head at heart and despite my latest mistake (see my moldy porch ceiling post) I pride myself on knowing the very latest on best practices regarding contruction, building science and new products.

So, I'm about to build a beach house and on principal I want to construct it in a way that can withstand at least a category 4 strike. In addition to researching the latest code and engineering knowlege surrounding shear wall construction, ties down engineering details, etc. I'm also looking at less conventional structures, SIPS and Concrete (specfically PolySteel).

The PolySteel is particularly interesting. They're starting to build entire neighborhoods in coastal NC (not direclty on the beach, but just inland off the intercoastal waterway) with this stuff and the performance of PolySteel buildings that have take direct F4/5 tornado hits. The biggest challenge is the raised Piling Foundation requirements... Obviously the load of a PolySteel load is obviously substantial as compared to a wood structure.

Would love to know what you would consider doing if you we're building your own home on the coast.

Thanks,

bradesp

[Andrew R.]

If you will be right on the beach then pilings are the only way because you have to allow for storm water to come ripping through and piles are the only way . Above that you can simpson tie it to death and make sure your windows are single and not near corners. If youre inland then Polysteel is probably the best. I looked into building in Marco Island Fla. an was looking at a polysteel floor and roof assembly also. Though the roof was expensive and probably prohibitive in cost it sold me if money was not an object then do it. We have got to do something with the codes in the windy areas to protect insurance rates.....no more 3 tab roofs minimum 80 mph roofs....no aluminum and vinyl soffits over unprotected eaves...no more vinyl siding not rated under 150 mph....no more double entry doors and big picture windows and triple and quads and stacked units.....no more giant weak overhead garage doors......no more fences installed without specs and permits....no more non tied down porch roofs, sheds, carports....no trees within falling distance of house....See if all my codes were in place Florida would have minimal damage from Frances!

[George Roberts]

Code changes will not affect insurance rates.

Code changes will price homes out of reach for many.

If you want to build a "better" house, do so. You insurance rates will reflect your risks.

[Andrew R.]

Short term thinking for a long term problem. 90% of Grenadas house were heavily damaged...Is that where we need to be? How much extra for a roof ....750.00 150 mph siding 450.00 reduced glass widths....500.00...anchor ties ... 500.00 Im just guessing this stuff for a 1700 foot home. Wind blows off 100 cheap 3 tab shingles , water ruins all ceilings , floors , furniture, cabinets, trim and much of HVAC and gypsum ..about 60,000.00......and this makes sense to you? I pay through the nose to insure my house only because the codes are stupid, the easy things are ignored that cause the constant claims every time these things get near us. Yet the code wants a tie or a strap or some other than taking out that 6' x 8' arch window over your front door or not having your 300.00 double door that leaks at 35 mph.

[FramerT]

Hey Bradesp, hope you like OceanIsle beach.Use to live a few hundred yards from the coastal waterway bridge there. Was there when hurricane Hugo hit.The water was the big problem.It'll wash away the sand exposing the septic tank,then your home was 'condemmed'.Second row houses were now first row houses.This was back in late '80s though. I don't see the 'codes'being changed to lower insurance rates.If it were cheap to live on the water,everyone would live there.Here in Richmond,Va.,we've had all 4 remnants of hurricanes in one month.The last one dumping 14 inchs rain in 4-5 hours.The next day driving to work through detours of washed out roads/bridges I notice some people's lawn-sprinklers running,go figure.

[Swan LS]

If you had Washington state laws with not being able to build on flood plains or wet lands you would not build in Florida from what I see from the pictures. Best of luck to you all down there. Swan

[bradesp]

FramerT,

We love all the southern Brunswick islands (Sunset Beach, Ocean Isle and Holden Beach). Since you we're there last Ocean Isle has installed underground water and sewer to the entire island, so septic is no longer an issue.

Code requires us to build at least 9' above finished grade (pilings). That plus 12+ feet above mean high tide provides decent protection for storm surge.

I intend on over-engineering this structure to prevent damage up to 140MPH... above that is silly. In the last 100+ years all catastrophic hurricanes that have directly hit NC all had maximum sustain ed wind speeds clocked at 130 MPH OR LESS (Hazel in 54' was only 125 mph).

These storms were "catastrophic" becuase of the inferior construction used in past years.

While many debate the codes, the fact remains that much is well understood today about how to build a very hurricane resistant structruce. The problem isn't the codes, it's compliance with codes and shoddy workmanship.

Yes, there remain a weak points - ashpalt shingles, certain design types, etc. In addition to over engineering the the structure with tie-downs, etc. I'll be using a metal roof (screwed, not nailed) and will likely use Hardiplank siding and trim in leau of vinyl.. although vinyl shakes have proven very hurricane resistant in recent storms.

bradesp

[FramerT]

A small world brad.Kinda makes me home-sick. Heard they've by-passed the big town of Shallotte,too.Have you read the North Carolina thread here?

[bradesp]

Know I haven't read the NC thread, but I am curious about your Shallotte reference... Shalotte is actually booming these days! A brand new Homedepot and super Walmart just opened there and there a number large new residential developements going in around Shallotte... Turns out it's an up and coming area for retiree's looking for a nice laid back coastal community without the high cost of more upscale areas.

brad

[bradesp]

BTW, my english is better than my posts, really! I can't believe how sloppy my english has become doing email and internet postings. KNOW instead of NO... jeesh...

brad

[Dick Seibert]

Funny, people fight like Hell when HD or Wal Mart want to come to a town around here. Wal Mart is perceived as a place where poor people shop and it devalues property in a town. Here's the latest fight to keep them out (Quote: "Anthony Quicho, who voted yes along with Michele Castagnola, said American Canyon would be a bad fit for a supercenter "targeted for low-income people." However, he said, the issue before the commission was the store's design, not whether it could come to town."): http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...AGJC8NFM71.DTL

[FramerT]

The 'big deal' with Walmart here is that'll put all the smaller stores out of business...did'nt mean to hi-jack this thread,oops. ps. brad,all that was'nt there then. I'll PM you.