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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Houston & Washington Texas
    Posts
    12,208

    Default Flashings, Leaky Windows, House Wrap, Etc

    So, to pull all this together, how would you devise a perfect system? I’m in the process of building my largest spec home ever (3 million$). It’s 3 coat stucco, metal lath, weep screeds etc. I want it “right”, don't want to be getting sued when I'm Dick's age. I have a three story home, 10,000 sq ft, 2x6 walls, 11’ first floor, 10’ second floor, 9’ third floor (we have a 35’ max height restriction).

    Here’s how I’m building it, tell me what I’m doing wrong:

    1). Used the best grade of material in my market: DF #2 for studs, #2 SYP for rafters (2x8), ½” CDX for exterior solid sheathing, 5'8" CDX for decking. Nailing pattern on sheathing is 4” OC @ the edges, 6” in the field.

    2). We use Simpson 2.5 clips on all rafter to plate connects, 36” straps on the exterior of plywood sheathing between floors, and 12” straps on the top of rafters-rafters over the ridge.

    3). I used all copper flashings, including copper eve strip. Flashings installed correctly.

    4). I used Tyvek Stucco Wrap as layer #1, wrapped into window openings.

    5). I used Tyvek Home Wrap over the Stucco Wrap, again, wrapped into the window openings.

    6.). Stucco contractor will add one layer of grade paper on top of my (2) layers of Tyvek.

    7). All exterior doors have lead coated door pans.

    8). Roof sheathing has Grace Ice & Water Shield applied solid, with 30# felt over it. Roof will be slate.

    At all window openings I am doing the following:

    1.) Wrapped Tyvek into opening.
    2.) Applied Tyvek 7” wrap (creases in corners) at the bottom window seal, turned up 6” on side.
    3.) Put window pan on top of Tyvek.
    4.) Added what we call window wrap on the sides of the opening, lapping over the turned up flange of the window pan.
    5.) Installed the windows (have nailing fins), leaving a 1/8” gap at bottom for water to shed.
    6.) Flashed the top of the window with membrane wrap.
    7.) Added another 6” layer of window wrap (giving me 2) over the side flanges of the window.

    My only issue is flashing the top of the window. The flashing really needs to be behind both layers of Tyvek, but I don’t want to cut the Tyvek. Right now I am leaning towards using a 9” membrane “flashing” just “attached” over the 2 layers of Tyvek. Any suggestions? I don’t want to use metal head flashing, because my windows are clad aluminum, I think the membrane will be OK. Also, in looking at it seems the nailing fin gives some water protection, although not sure it’s designed for that, I’m asking the manufacturer.

    OK, shoot it down guys.
    Last edited by Allan Edwards; 08-30-2004 at 03:11 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Va.
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    3,675

    Default Re: Flashings, Leaky Windows, House Wrap, Etc

    Allan,
    Because of the price I would go with 5/8" cdx on the roof and walls, 1" t&g on the floors (1 layer only). Beef up the rafters to 2 x 10 minimum because of the slate but make sure its yellow pine, get the plywood for the roof with the reflective foil ( slates hot) on the bottom and run all the wall sheathing horizontally with a good gap.All the wrap around the windows depends on the brand window and where its weak points are. I hear guys talk about wrap here and there and sometimes the water is being "trapped wrapped". sheath walls to lap first and second floor joist system, sheath walls to top of top plate where rafters are and birdsmouth pulled over wall sheathing, solid blocks for insulation stops at eave with 1 inch air space. LvL for hips and valleys so no center supports to interior walls need to be engineered. exposed gravel trough around foundation to a french drain looks cool and directs roof water. Thats enough from me, Dick gonna engineer you into 1000.00 a foot framing.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
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    Houston & Washington Texas
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    12,208

    Default Re: Flashings, Leaky Windows, House Wrap, Etc

    The t&g is not used much here, I use 1-1/8” plywood subfloor, glued and screwed over 20” floor trusses 19” OC. We do drop our subfloor between the trusses in the tiled floor areas. Finished flooring in bedrooms and hallways are hardwoods.

    The roof is 13/12 pitch, so I think 2x8 are OK. The longest rafter is about 14’.

    Did use the reflective foiled back plywood decking (we use to call it Kool Ply, now called Tech Shield).

    By the way, my framer was unbelievable. He had 12 men working 10 hr days they had it up in 3 weeks! His quality is beyond approach in my opinion. Charged me $72,000. Had 4 stairways, one circular. 34 arched openings.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
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    Va.
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    Default Re: Flashings, Leaky Windows, House Wrap, Etc

    In california that would be 720,000.00 to frame.

  5. #5
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    NOLA
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    Default Re: Flashings, Leaky Windows, House Wrap, Etc

    Try this.
    This shows Tyvek tape.
    You could also use a peel and stick to seal the cut.

    Be sure to use a roller to "set" the sticky.

    For xtra insurance consider applying a compatible sealant under the head flap.

    Tyvek recommends sealants and if you are using any non-tested peel and stick consider testing for compatibility first.

    Bill R
    Last edited by Bill Robinson; 09-03-2007 at 09:56 AM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Sevierville, TN
    Posts
    317

    Default Re: Flashings, Leaky Windows, House Wrap, Etc

    Allan,

    I agree with Bill's pictures. This is how we're currently installing windows. I'm concerned that you have two layers of house wrap that effectively drain behind your window's nailing fin.

    Also, you say you have copper window pans and aluminum windows. Watch out for the contact of dissimilar metals, and galvanic corrosion.

    Peter

  7. #7
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    Jun 2004
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    Houston & Washington Texas
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    Default Re: Flashings, Leaky Windows, House Wrap, Etc

    Bill, the peel and stick is what we use, looks like in your picture the Tyvek is cut, placed over the peel and stick, and then taped. I am actually putting my final (2nd) layer of Tyvek over the peel and seal, I may just put the peel and seal over the first Tyvek Wrap, it is 9" wide.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
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    NOLA
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    Default Re: Flashings, Leaky Windows, House Wrap, Etc

    Allan:
    To communicate clearly I need to hold things in my hands and point.

    However, it looks like you are there.

    Just make sure everything is "shingle style."

    You necessarily need to depart from that when integrating the head flashing with the existing housewrap.

    Pick a layer, preferably the first one, and tie your window, flashings and housewrap together in a weather-resistive barrier.

    Be careful when using sealants wit peal and stick.
    It can get messy if you do not have compatible materials.

    And, like Peter said, use caution with dissimilar materials.

    IMO, the grade D paper (two layers) is sufficient with the stucco, but what do I know?

    I think the theory behind grade D paper is that the stucco, when it dries, pulls away from the first layer of paper and created a drainage plane.

    Am not sure if that was the original intent or an explanation after the fact to have answers for the building scientists.

    Bill R

  9. #9
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    Jun 2004
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    Houston & Washington Texas
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    Default Re: Flashings, Leaky Windows, House Wrap, Etc

    Bill, I'm not totally sure on some of these issues either, but I'll get back with you in about 10 years. On the head flashing, obviously a shingle type layering is basic in flashing, but if a window leaks at the top I think if your flashing is 9" above the top of the window you will be taking care of potential leaks. Besides, most of the leaks I've ever seen (and I am NOT an expert of leaking windows) seem to be at the bottom (sill). I'm betting the farm on the window pans to shed and deflect any water that gets into the window cavity.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Sevierville, TN
    Posts
    317

    Default Re: Flashings, Leaky Windows, House Wrap, Etc

    Bill,

    In your pictures, it appears that you're using felt paper splines and Tyvek tape. This is what we did on the last house we did. Is this what I'm actually seeing in your pictures?

    Peter

  11. #11
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    NOLA
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    Default Re: Flashings, Leaky Windows, House Wrap, Etc

    Peter,
    I actually used EDPM for this session.
    It is a rubber product I used on another project—not really good for window flashing. Too expensive.
    The photos are from a specification I am writing for a builder.

    They did not want a “named” product in the photos.

    In fact, I would use Fortifiber 9” mechanically applied or 9" peel and stick.

    There are other products as well. Here in CA, Fortifiber is most available.

    You might recall from earlier posts on one of these forums I am a stickler for the “rules”, pedantic as someone said.

    The "rules" call for 9" minimum width, continuous label and 24-hour minimum water resistance.

    If you are using felt splines they may or may not have 24-hour water resistance.

    60-minute paper is 60 minute resistant.
    Bill R
    Last edited by Bill Robinson; 08-30-2004 at 06:26 PM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
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    Sevierville, TN
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    317

    Default Re: Flashings, Leaky Windows, House Wrap, Etc

    The "rules" call for 9" minimum width, continuous label and 24-hour minimum water resistance.

    What rules are you referring to Bill?

  13. #13
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    NOLA
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    Default Re: Flashings, Leaky Windows, House Wrap, Etc

    ASTM E2112
    AAMA Installation Masters

    Here is a link to one site.
    http://www.socalgas.com/construction...ows%20With.htm

    They are adopting the standards set by ASTM based on other practices. One of which was CAWM (Caifornia Association of Window Manyfacturers)

    There is a lot more info, you can downliad the ASTM E 2112 doc from their site at http://www.astm.org/cgi-bin/SoftCart...AGES/E2112.htm

    Bill R

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Martinez, California
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    14,991

    Default Re: Flashings, Leaky Windows, House Wrap, Etc

    Allan:

    I combine two systems for flashing windows, first I staple Fortifiber's Moistop: http://www.fortifiber.com/html/window_flashing.html , then I use W.R. Grace's Vycor. I prefer Vycor to EZ Seal because it's heavier and self-seals the nail holes better: http://www.na.graceconstruction.com/...00.html&did=26 That gives me Moistop at 48 hours, and Vycor at 100 hours, so I am getting a 148 hour system rather than a standard 24 hour system like Grade A flashing.

    I have to wonder why you use the two layers of Tyvek, I use Fortifiber's Two layer Super Jumbo Tex: http://www.fortifiber.com/html/window_flashing.html . I think you are complicating your flashing system by using the Tyvek, and are running the risk of compatibility problems with the dissimilar products. That being said, I combine Tyvek's FlexWrap with my Moistop, Vycor, and Jumbo Tex when I have round windows. I've called the engineers at Du Pont on the compatibility issues, and all the can say is that they have never tested their Tyvek products for compatibility with bituminous based products, but I've gone ahead and combined the FlexWrap because it does such a great job of wrapping around round windows. Since the product is only a couple of years old, I have no idea how it is going to stand up. Since your plasterer is using one layer of Grade D over the Tyvek, I'd check compatibility. What is the Tyvek giving you for the money you are spending for it?

    I can't believe you are framing down there for $7.20 a foot, can you post some pictures? Here is a link to some pictures of the $25.00 a foot framing we do around here: http://www.fototime.com/inv/8098880EFF35408 Maybe if you can post some pictures of how you frame we can compare and see if we really do 3 times as much work as you do, or you just have faster framers. In any event, I'd take a close look at anybodies work that framed a 10,000 square foot house in three weeks.
    “It is not an endlessly expanding list of rights —the “right” to an education; the “right” to health care; the “right” to food and housing. That is not freedom. That is dependency. Those are not rights. Those are the rations of slavery – hay and a barn for human cattle.” - Alexis de Tocqueville

  15. #15
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    Jun 2004
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    Sevierville, TN
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    Default Re: Flashings, Leaky Windows, House Wrap, Etc

    Bill,

    Good info!

    As far as I know, Tennessee has no such specification. Although I think I'll try to adhere to the ASTM spec.

    If you have a window with an intregal aluminum fin, what do you fasten it to the wall with?

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