Removing backsplash tile from sheetrock

[Guest]

Is there a way to remove ceramic backsplash tiles from sheetrock without damaging the sheetrock?

I would like to retile a bathroom floor and may need to remove and replace the backsplash tiles.

Thanks

[Guest]

Re: Removing backsplash tile from sheetrock

Usually the paper is all that is damaged.It peels off with the tile.Use a pointer trowel.Try to work it behind the tile with it flat against the wall.That way it "cuts" the adhesive off the paper.This is not 100% but will help keep damage to a minimum.

[Guest]

Re: Removing backsplash tile from sheetrock

Anytime paper is removed from the skin of drywall, the drywall should be replaced. The bond strength of tile adhesive to drywall (without the paper) is probably less than 20 psi, less than the recommended strength.

The answer to your question is that there is no way to remove ceramic tile from gypsum drywall without damaging it. This is not just an opinion, but an accepted fact of the building industry.

[Guest]

Re: Removing backsplash tile from sheetrock

Interesting.I didn't realize that much bond-strength was lost.I guess it would be wise to plan on replacing the drywall when figuring the cost for such a job,perhaps with backer board.

[Guest]

Re: Removing backsplash tile from sheetrock

This question should probably be posted in the drywall forum.

MB's response is his typical solid gold approach. In reality thousands of remodelers remove tile from backsplashes, repair the damage ( I use hot mud (Fix All , durabond, etc) then apply two heavy coats of a good oil or white pigmented shellac primer (KilZ)). I've have never had a call back with this approach.

Replacing the material is overkill. If you just replace up to the top of the old tile, you then have a butt joint to patch (which is prone to cracking.)

Replacing tile like this is where I figured out how strong mastic is. It's more difficult to remove tile installed with mastic than thin set.

--rick

[Guest]

Re: Removing backsplash tile from sheetrock

Hi Rick

How are you getting setting materials to stick to shellac?

Rob

[Guest]

Re: Removing backsplash tile from sheetrock

Rick,

The poster wants to know how to fix a problem, not learn how to cheat or use products known to be bondbreakers (KilZ).

You have been asked before to stop posting erroneous and misleading information. If you have a problem with that, I invite you to email me personally and directly with your problem.

[Guest]

Re: Removing backsplash tile from sheetrock

John, Kirk here,

I've done a lot of plaster and drywall repair work as a remodeler and painter. Your joint won't be weak if you properly prepare the cut edge or if you cut it back to where the drywall is supported by wood (a nailer). Or, you can install a row of nailers. If you feel that the drywall will be pushed and bumped alot, I would suggest supporting it with a nailer.

To prepare the joint without a nailer's support- bevel the edge of the cut face so that it tapers slightly so that the joint material has something to grab onto forward and backward. Cut a two to three inch strip of expanded metal lath to back up the material you shove into the gap (be sure there is gap to work with). Put string through the metal lath and fish it through the gap and tape the ends of the string to the painted wall above the gap. Pull the string tight to pull the lath close to the interior of the wall. Press quantities of Fixall into the gap to fill the mesh and the gap. Don't fill the fixall flush to the surface, its too hard to sand after it dries. Let it dry overnight, then fill the remainder with mud and cover with tape and top coat the tape as if taping a regular joint.

I grew up in Pasadena CA around many old homes that still have and want to keep their lath and plaster walls. That repair method I outlined takes too long for most bid/cost driven "professional" repairs but it bonds and allows you to work between nailers. Its similar to the way plasterers used to do plaster repairs. I've torn out a few and studied them a few minutes. But that sort of substantial building is mostly a thing of the past, unless you talk to ethical craftsmen like MB. I used to work with a guy who worked like Rick suggests you do, but I found other work rather than watch folks get burned on that sort of workmanship.

Experiment for yourself, take the paper from one side of a piece of scrap drywall and try to use it. Drywall is NOT a strong material. Its magic is that it is inexpensive.

[Guest]

Re: Removing backsplash tile from sheetrock

>>The poster wants to know how to fix a problem, not learn how to cheat or use products known to be bondbreakers (KilZ).

Check out http://www.custombuildingproducts.com/onlyproducts/UniversalTSADS.htm or a host of other tile adhesives that allow you to install tile over:
Existing ceramic tile, asbestos-free vinyl and plastic laminates.

Are you saying a primed/painted drywall surface will not bond while the above surfaces will? Are you saying you cannot install tile over a painted wall?

What is the minimum PSI holding power you feel necessary for decorative wall tile? My retired rocket scientist friend has volunteered to test the adhesive strength of mastic over primed drywall.

--rick

[Guest]

Re: Removing backsplash tile from sheetrock

rick,
Of the three surfaces you listed the ONLY one I would consider installing tile over is tile.I've witnessed numerous failures on vinyl even with modified adhesives.Yes,Ditra is a plastic but it is "dovetailed" to hold the tile.If you set a piece of tile on some Ditra you can "slide" the tile off of it.The thinset is not BONDED to the Ditra.

[Guest]

Re: Removing backsplash tile from sheetrock

ka,

I wouldn't install over any of them. I was just listing what the manufacture claimed it's mastic bonds to. I might consider doing it over plastic laminate after some major skuffing, but I tend to just use an iron to remove the laminate then use thin set.

My point was these *approved* surfaces are all *slicker* than primed drywall.

-rick

[Guest]

Re: Removing backsplash tile from sheetrock

O.K. I'm with ya now.LOL

I'm a little gun-shy about "tile over tile" if I didn't do the first install myself.I have to check it out thoroughly.

[Guest]

Re: Removing backsplash tile from sheetrock

Bond is only part of the issue. The gypsum core of drywall is reinforced by the paper facing and backing in much the same way concrete board is reinforced by the fiber glass mesh. Remove it and you weaken the overall structural integrity of the panel.

[Guest]

Re: Removing backsplash tile from sheetrock

Look at the original question. It's about replacing back splash. Drywall is not a structural material. Driveing screws (or nails) into it damages the surface. Removing the seam significantly weakens it. Overdrive fasterns fractures the core. Warp, wane, bow, crook, all weaken the drywall.

What about replacing the tile back splash for a kitchen counter top? How much strenght do you need here?

How much does removing a portion of the paper reduce the strenght? What if it's new construction and the rockers have pulled a portion of the paper face off (very common, especially in room less than 97 " tall.) How do you know the rockers didn't remove the paper from the back of the rock when they cut it (again, all too common.) What if the bottom of the sheet was crushed where they used the drywall lift (very very common.)

What is the minimum strength you need (in compression, shear, bonding, etc) for a back splash?

I've seen hundreds of bathroom tile failures, almost always because of water penetration thru the grout delaminating the greenboard. I've seen many remodlers remove the tile and reinstall (they should follow KA's good advice and minimize the damage), I've yet to see a failure. This ultra conservativism doesn't reflect reality nor add any value.

Asking a tile installer to remove the rock and reinstall new board, tape and finish will add a huge overhead to the job - and at what benefit. I'd like to see a CBA (cost benefit analysis) on this.

--rick

[Guest]

Re: Removing backsplash tile from sheetrock

Rick,

I'm not here to argue with you or anyone else for that matter. Do not confuse structural integrity of the panel with drywall adding structurally to the installation. They are separate issues. The point being, drywall is weak enough when it is fully intact much less after it has been hacked, stabbed, gorged and torn.