back to lead

[mike maines]

Soon I will be moving to a different state, and though I have run my own small construction/woodworking business for 6 years, I am looking forward to working for a good company as a lead or maybe a PM. After (trying to) run my own business, I understand a lot more about where my previous employers were coming from.

Tim, in your book I really liked the list of questions for a company to ask a potential lead in an interview.

What sorts of questions do you all think I should ask a potential employer? What would you ask? Is it bad form to ask to see their business plan? I want to make sure I find a great company to work for.

Thanks,
Mike

[Timothy Faller]

Great question? Perhaps you can name the state and area that you are going to and I can put you in touch with some good ones. I have contacts all around and have contacts with people that have contacts.
The business plan idea is good. This will determine whether they are looking ahead and how they intend toi grow. Sit down and set out your ideas for a company. What do you want. Growth, stability, team effort or attitude, bosses that care about the employee, bonuses, to name a few. Now make up questions top see if a compnay fits your plan. Will you be looking for a PM soon? etc. Ask if you can interview one of the leads that they already have. Then ask them the questions. You are in good shape because most of the world is looking for good leads. Let me know how it goes. Perhaps I will work on some of those questions and get back to you.

[Scott]

Mike,

Where are you relocating to? The Kansas City area, perhaps?

[mike maines]

Thanks Tim--asking to interview another lead is a great idea, especially if he is willing to be candid about the company.

I'll be moving to Portland, Maine--my home state, but not too close to where I grew up (so no contacts). I've been in Boston and Nantucket, Mass. for the last 10 years, including 4 for school in architectural engineering.

I'm glad to hear that leads are in demand! I've acted as lead while subcontracting to GC's, but I'm looking for a more permanent situation.

Thanks for your help!

Mike

[Timothy Faller]

Hey Mike,
Maine is wonderful! My Mom grew up in Old Town and we have a summer house on Monhegan. (not me, the family) I drive trough Portland several times a year.

Scott, I will be speaking in Kansa City for the local NARI chapter in early March. Maybe I'll see you there.

[Scott]

Tim<

I'm looking forward to seeing you in K.C. I'm on the K.C. NARI Education Committee, we put the Remodeler's Convention together, I think you've been speaking with Jan to coordinate things so far. I believe I'll be picking you up at the airport when you come in. We're all excited about this conference, should have a great turn-out.
See you there!

[Dan Morrison]

Hi Mike.
Nice to chat with you again. So you're making the move huh? All of my talk about staggeringly low wages didn't deter you? Good.

Before I moved here I surfed the online paper for excellent job leads and sent resumes to only the absolute best (there's lots of "frame to finish carpenter wanted -- competitive wages" ads every week). I flew up here a couple of months prior to moving to locate a house and a job and flew home with three jobs and four houses. I was offered jobs with a cabinetry company for $16/hour (top guy was making $17(!)), a restoration contractor and a design/build remodeling/new construction company (start at $15.50 up to $16.50 after a month).

I did my homework before all of the interviews. I went ahead and shaved, got a haircut and wore nice clean clothes. I brought photos of my recent work (I had a nice addition in progress in Tennessee at the time), drawings of cabinets, additions and decks and a list of questions to ask them. Lemme see if I can dig up that list of questions...

Nope, I must have thrown them away.
I asked a bunch of questions to size up their company – how many people they employed, what did they sub/not sub, what their volume was, what size was a typical project ($25,000 addition? $250,000 addition?), what types of projects they specialized in etc. and also what room for advancement there was. But at the end I realized it all comes down to each party asking the same question -- well actually two questions, but I'll get to the second one in a minute -- "What are you looking for?"
If, after asking this to each other, the answer seems to fit the bill, move on to the next question. "How much can you afford to pay/How much do you need to be paid?"

I told each company that my three to five year plan was to open a kitchen/bath remodeling company and that this wasn't necessarily a conflict of interest as after working for them for 3-5 yrs, I'd be one heck of a reliable sub. The company I chose bought that line (which was the truth) and maybe was one reason I chose them. But they seemed to be far and away the best company.

I took the job with Fine Lines Construction. They're an excellent company and crew. Very talented carpenters ("woodpeckas as they call themselves). The pay started at $15.50 and bumped a buck after a month (they gave it to me after two weeks). I couldn't survive on those wages, so I started looking elsewhere. I got an interview with a company in need of a lead to double their volume (they only had one lead currently).

I didn't give this company the scrutiny that I had Fine Lines. They appeared to be a great company and after meeting with the owners at Fine L:ines about a raise and promotion (which was not immediately forthcoming), I told them that I needed to go the job with higher pay , more responsibility and room for advancement.

I didn't go out and look at a job site of this new company. I didn't meet the production manager. I wasn't as thorough as I was with Fine Lines. That was a mistake.

I made the right short term choice because I need the money – baby boy and lovely wife (and Great Dane mix) – I immediately felt like I made the wrong long term choice.

The reason I'm going through all of this is to say that you should be very careful to weigh all aspects carefully and to meet people on the crew and view their work in progress. Don't go by how well the owner is able to sell his company to you – that's his job.

Sorry this has taken so long to spit out, but let me be the first to Welcome you back to Maine, and do please give me a call 207-353-2699 and we can talk more about the marketplace (or the fine selection of microbrew beers or whatever).

Good luck, Dan
P.s. click the link below to get to the classified section for all the major papers in Maine (I usually just search for carpenter):




Careers in Maine

[mike maines]

Thanks a lot, Dan, I just emailed you before I got this message. I had noticed ads for Fine Lines in DownEast magazine before you said you worked for them, and I think I recall seeing one of their trucks on Nantucket--looked like a good outfit. Too bad about the wages, I also need more than 16.50 just to survive....

Sounds like you really put on a good presentation for them too--I'll definately take your advice to be thorough in assessing the companies I interview with. One question--do you think being totally honest about your 3-5 year plan helped or hurt you?

So where's a good place to meet up? Stonecoast? Gritty's? Una?

Mike

[Timothy Faller]

Hey Dan, The "great Dane mix" is that a comment about your wife or a refence to a real canine?

[Dan Morrison]

Tim,
I enjoyed your book and have lent it to my current employer.

She's (the canine) half Great Dane and half German Shepard. We call her a "Wookie", but her name is Elke. My wife is a Great American mix. I call her Hunny bunny.

Or Monkey fart.

Mike, about honesty -- I think you should always be honest. There's too many people who take honesty lightly. Dishonesty pisses me off way more than honesty has ever pissed me off. In fact I don't think anybody's honesty has ever pissed me off.

I think it helped in the interview process for a number of reasons:
1. It shows that you've got drive and ambition.
2. It shows that you may be more prone to sweating the details such as unprofitable behavior and efficiency or materials/labor.
3. It shows that you may be a better candidate for a leadership role.
4. As I said before, after they've trained you in their method of doing things, and you're totally in synch with their crews, you'll be a valuable subcontractor to them.
5. It shows that you're honest.

Neither you nor they can expect your pay to keep rising. At some point they either have to make you a partner or let you go off to be your own businessman and make more money than you're worth to them. If this isn't true, then why did they go into business for themselves instead of working for someone else? If they want to make you a partner, all the better.

Hopefully, you can forge a mentor type relationship with a company to make your transition go more smoothly -- help you set up your bookkeeping, and such. Worst case scenario, you get yet another lesson in "how not to run a business".

Lets see, beer... I'm in Lisbon Falls, so the nearest one to me is Seadog Brewing Company in Topsham.
Man what a refreshing change from Nashville, Tennessee where you could get Bud, Bud Light, Bud Ice, Bud Dry, Miller Light, Miller Genuine Draft and Heineken.

Dan

[Cyrus Chilton]

Mike
FYI- I'm a G.C. in Kennebunkport(30yrs.)also have a cabinet shop. My lead carpenter makes 17.00 as an employee with 2 weeks paid holiday/ vacation. However, I have 2 other leads that make 20.00 as independent contractors (no benefits). My experience is that most smaller G.C.'s (under 10 people) will go either way on hiring people. Good independents (Own vehicle, tools, insurance, work ethic) can make 20$ to 30$ an hour. Good Luck in your move & let me know if you want an interview.

Cy

[Mike Maines]

Cy, I'd definately like an interview. I'll send you an email. Thanks for the information,

Mike

[piffin]

Mike, A top down way of doing this might be to write a resume' and send it to architects in the area you are planning on. A cover lettre introducing your self with your desired type of work and a simple question - "Do you, Mr Architect, know of any builders that are looking for someone of my calibre?"

Buell Hemingway is a very fine one in Portland and he has worked with several others there. I don't currently have his # but if can't find it you ain't worth the sweat on your hammer handle...

[mike maines]

Good idea piffin. When I first considered moving I was going to stay self-employed; my plan was to contact architects and designers to drum up work. The same plan could work to find a good contractor to work for.

Buell Hemingway...I'll try him and look for others. Thanks.

[Jacob Frazier]

Just want to say thanx to Tim on the great book my wife bought it for x.mas for me can't put it down This is a great site Jacob