Fypon: or Kelly gets his wish

[Gary Katz]

For those who don't know:
Fypon is a manufacturer of polyurethane moldings and ornaments--used for interior and exterior architectural decoration: crown, casing, entablatures, balustrades, gable-end decorations, corbels, brackets, etc.

Now, to satisfy Kelly's need for a new topic:

About cutting metal:

The balusters and the railing I'll be using have a steel pipe in the center. I'm not looking forward to that part. However, I've been thinking of buying a nice bandsaw for this job (guess where it goes when the job's done?), because there's a lot of radius work to do, and I guess I could fit the bandsaw with a metal-cutting blade to cut the railings to length?

I'll also have to cut the balusters for the stairs, both cut them off at the slope of the railing and still leave 1 in. of steel pipe exposed to use as a dowel for securing the baluster into the top and bottom rails. I've been puzzling about how I'm going to do that--I mean do it quickly and perfecly (those two qualifiers being my main concern in life). I think the bandsaw and a couple of jigs might work for that too, better than any other tool.

But what do I know? I've never done any of this before. Any suggestions? In the past, I'd be left with no other alternative but to experiment by myself 'in the field', but now I can get other heads into the problem. What a pleasure.
Gary

[Bill Hartmann]

Gary

Woodworking band saws are way to fast to cut steel. Jet and Delta make a 14" with a transmission to slow it down for metal. But then it is too slow for optium woodcutting on even the highest speed. But you could take it out later. But you also have the problem of cooling oil.

I would look at one of the horizontal metal cuting bandsaws or metal cutting cutoff saw.

[Kelly]

Aaaaah, Gary, I feel better already. Thanks.

Are these things mostly plastic in a profile that looks like wood balusters and newels and such, with just a little bit of steel inside? Like a thin-wall 1/2 inch tubing or some such? Or is is mostly a steel pipe with a plastic covering? Trying to visualize this.

If it's mostly plastic, I think you could do well on a band saw as you plan, just cutting the plastic part. Then you could chop off the pipe with something else, like your abrasive cut-off saw. Kinda like the butcher cutting the meat down to the bone with his knife, then going to the saw for the bone. Besides, that way you get a new band saw for the shop and life is good. A whole lot of us on this forum can immediately subscribe to that kind of thinking.

What kind of plastic are we dealing with? Is it rigid like PVC pipe, or kinda foam-filled, or what? I've never dealt with the stuff. Gonna look for a website with pichers (that's a Texas word that means the same as picture).

Mike: Are the saw blades you're talking about the kind with a segmented perimeter, kinda like some diamond blades with much deeper slots and no diamonds? Have one of those somewhere that was advertised for cutting sheet metal - 7 1/4 inch size. It would indeed cut the metal roofing (24 gauge steel), but it was gawd-auful noisy and not terribly fast as I recall. If Gary's stuff is thin-wall, that kind of blade might work, though.
CX

[Kelly]

Gary:
If you buy a bandsaw, let me tell you of my custom door guy's bad experience with JET first.
CX

[Rob Zschoche]

Gary

Would one of Milwaukee's portable bandsaws cut what you're working on? They're made to cut heavy pipe, so it should work on your moldings.

Go to Milwaukee's website. They have numerous bandsaws listed .

Rob

[Rob Zschoche]

Oh, the web address is:

www.mil-electric-tool.com.

[Gary Katz]

Okay,
I went to the Milwaukee site. It looks like there's two saws that would cut the railing--which is 3 5/8 in. wide and 3 1/8 in. tall. One's a variable speed, the other's a two speed. But I'm kind of discouraged that they're both hand held. I was hoping for something with greater control, for cutting miters and perfect butt joints.

Kelly, the handrail has a large 2 1/2 in. diameter pipe, that's thicker than EMT but much thinner than galv. pipe. The balusters have 3/4 in. pipe that looks like EMT. The hard urethane covers the remainder--the balusters are about 2 in. square at the ends.

The pipe in the baluster acts like a dowel, too, so I'll have to drill the handrail pipe for each baluster. I think there's about 800 balusters. About 150 of those go down stairways, and they'll have to be cut off at the slope of the railing--leaving the 3/4 in. pipe sticking out about 1 in. so that it can dowel into the top and bottom rails.

On the straight railing I'm planning on cutting the rails between newels, then laying out and drilling the holes with a small drill press, assembling the balusters in the rails then installing the completed section.

On the stairs, I'm planning on setting the rails (screwed to metal brackets), laying out the holes for the baulsters, drilling the holes in place to guestimate the angle (using a hole saw), then removing the rails, installing the balusters, and setting the completed section between the newels.

I think I can probably cut the railing with the handheld saw, but I'll want to make some kind of repetitive cutting jigs for cutting the angled balusters--leaving the pipe out.

Gary

[Mike Sloggatt]

Hey Gary - Maybe you can get one of those saws the Magicians use- You know they cut the box in half , but leave the Girls legs in one piece.

Seriously though It sounds like a set of jigs & a hand saw to cut the ballusters.
That Fypon stuff cuts pretty easiliy... I suppose until you get to the pipe.

mps

[Kelly]

Gary:
At least some of the power hack saws are mounted on a pivot, like a chop saw, and the saw is also removable for hand-held work. I don't own one and don't know the brand of the ones my electric gate installer and another welding shop have, but they are blue in color, so not Milwaukee. I think they would do what you want to do, but not necessarily with the precision you're looking for, expecially considering the need for re-positioning to cut around the pipes.

Another suggestion: Consider cutting the balusters all the way through, both the square and angled cuts, and putting a dowel inside the pipe to use for doweling into the railing. If you are gluing the plastic parts together to make these joints (I'm guessing that's how they go together) a drive-fit wood dowel and properly sized hole should provide enough strength. Possibly find another steel pipe to fit tightly in the baluster centers, or one that fits "pretty good" and add some epoxy or JB Weld to make the joint. Would make those mitre cuts a whole lot easier if you can just cut all the way through, whatever tool you decide to use.

Couldn't find a picture on the web, but I ordered the Fypon catalog. How soon you gotta start this project?
CX

[Danny Waite]

Gary,
You might want to look at a horizontal bandsaw. Go to www.use-enco.com and look at their 5"x6" combination horizontal/vertical bandsaw which sells for $178.95. Model # 505-6840. Probably a pretty cheap saw for the money but should allow you to set up a jig and make repetitive cuts. These type saws will cut un-assisted and shut off at the end of the cut. If I had to cut that many balusters, and with the angle cuts, I wouldn't want to do it on a vertical bandsaw or even with a hand held porta-band. Good luck.

[Shane]

Gary,

Just curious. Have you checked into what the manufacturer suggest using to cut with? Most of the time I find their suggestions the hard way, but would like to know what they say. Shane

[Eric Testani]

Gary,

Have you considered Dewalt's multi-cutter saw for cutting the ballusters? It's a metal cutting chop saw that uses a carbide blade spinning at low speed. I haven't used one, but it sounds like it would cut through both materials.

Porter Cable makes a similar tool.

Follow the link below to check it out.

Good Luck,
Eric


Heavy-Duty 14" (355mm) Multi-Cutter Saw - DW872

[Gary Katz]

My thanks for ALL the advice. Let's see, I liked Mike Slogatts, among others. I have a friend who's a magician, and I asked him about the saw but he won't tell me the trick!

I liked Kelly's! For the stair balusters I think that's EXACTLY what I'll do! Otherwise, I have to cut the things in the craziest way--which is what FYPON suggested. There's too many for that kind of nonsense.

I'm looking into the DeWalt/PC cutoff saws. They look like the nearest thing to a chopsaw, with chopsaw-like accuracy.

I'll find another reason to buy that bandsaw--a woodworking one, which is what I've always wanted. There's lots of radius stuff on this job too...that's reason enough.

We're starting in two weeks, on the gable ends. I've ordered this HUGE radius pieces from a local millshop, made from laminated redwood, which hang from the back of the the gable-end barge rafters (that's for you, MS). They're suspended by spokes made from the same material. I'll be taking lots of pictures, believe it.
Gary

[DaveB]

Is the bottom of this rail plowed? Assuming yes, I would make a jig for the rake cuts( for a handsaw, as fypon cuts very easily). The saw blade would simply ride against a straight edge set to the needed angle, then run my bosch jigsaw with metal cutting blade against the same jig setup which should leave a 1 1/4 dowel. Then roll and setup in a new jig for handsaw to do the other side. Then connect the two sides with a utility knife and remove the fypon. Then with the money I had figured in for a new tool, I'd get myself a nice woodworking bandsaw. Thats two jigs, and 4 operations per rake end. On the straight ends, I'd setup about 20 at a clip and use a skill saw/jigsaw combo similar to above. Make skillsaw cut, roll jig, Cut other side, Jigsaw thru metal leaving 1" dowel, connect fypon cuts with utility knife, remove fypon. Keep us posted.

[CraigV]

Gary,

I've gotta say, although a woodworking bandsaw is definitely not the tool for this job, it's a great investment. I've got a Craftsman 14" saw (it's the same as Delta, Jet, Powermatic, etc etc, at a little lower cost.) that I bought about a year ago, and I'm amazed at how much I've used it. I'm pretty sure that if all my other power saws crapped one day, I'd still be able to get the job done with the bandsaw. No, I have no clue why all my other tools would crap, leaving me with only a bandsaw, but that's for another post.... ;-)