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Wood DBL hung wdw- adding spring balance?

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  • Wood DBL hung wdw- adding spring balance?

    Looking for supplier of replacement spring balance for Dbl hung wood sash.
    Large 6/6 5'-6" sash now have cash iron weights & pulleys.
    Historic location need to keep old sash not the draft and guillotine effects.
    Thanks, Craig

  • #2
    Re: Wood DBL hung wdw- adding spring balance?

    Historic Homeworks has plenty of info on reducing air leakage on historic window sash.

    The sash weight system will last forever. Spring balances will not. I'd look to keep the original system.

    http://www.historichomeworks.com/hhw/index.htm

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    • #3
      Re: Wood DBL hung wdw- adding spring balance?

      nehouse. Your post is mighty confusing.

      You say you need spring balances for a double hung sash in an historic location that has cast iron weights and pulleys.

      HUH?

      Spring balances were invented in ( I believe ) in the 1920s and only perfected in the 1930s.

      If you are working in an historic location / conservation area you will almost certainly be required to replace like with like. You almost certainly will not be allowed to put sash balances into box sashes in historic buildings.

      Hdrider can give you sources for the "correct gear" in north america. Here I use two companys, reddiseals and mighton. Hope this helps
      Limey Carpenter

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      • #4
        Re: Wood DBL hung wdw- adding spring balance?

        PS

        If you swap out the old pulleys and install new pulleys that have ball bearings you will improve your end product

        MOST conservation areas (in the UK) allow the ball bearing improvement
        Limey Carpenter

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        • #5
          Re: Wood DBL hung wdw- adding spring balance?

          Originally posted by nehousewrights View Post
          Looking for supplier of replacement spring balance for Dbl hung wood sash.
          Large 6/6 5'-6" sash now have cash iron weights & pulleys.
          Historic location need to keep old sash not the draft and guillotine effects.
          Thanks, Craig
          Keep the weight and pulley system, they work great and will last virtually forever, and can be easily repaired. Spring balances are expensive to retrofit, problematic, and when they break, you or the next person will be lucky to find parts.

          If you are seeing serious air infiltration via the pulleys, that indicates that air sealing should be done on the exterior. Eliminating the pulleys alone will accomplish little in the way of energy efficiency.

          Make sure the window sashes are weatherstripped.

          There should be no guillotine effect on a properly operating window.
          "If you only have a hammer, all problems look like nails"

          Vintage wood window repair and restoration in Chicago
          Wood storm windows in Chicago
          Weatherizing vintage buildings in Chicago

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Wood DBL hung wdw- adding spring balance?

            Craig,

            Listen to HD. Do as he says. Check out his web site.

            Tom
            http://chicagocraftsmen.org/2011/06/261.html

            Check with the AHJ, what we say doesn't matter.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Wood DBL hung wdw- adding spring balance?

              Originally posted by tjbnwi View Post
              Craig,

              Listen to HD. Do as he says. Check out his web site.

              Tom
              Thanks, Tom, but I only provide the most accurate information I can. Ultimately everyone has to make their own decisions.
              "If you only have a hammer, all problems look like nails"

              Vintage wood window repair and restoration in Chicago
              Wood storm windows in Chicago
              Weatherizing vintage buildings in Chicago

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Wood DBL hung wdw- adding spring balance?

                Now he can make an informed decesion.

                Tom
                http://chicagocraftsmen.org/2011/06/261.html

                Check with the AHJ, what we say doesn't matter.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Wood DBL hung wdw- adding spring balance?

                  PS either mighton or reddiseals now produce pulleys with draught stripping to reduce heat loss / reduce draughts through the box

                  I'm not entirely sure if they can be retrofitted by ordinary carpenters. But I am equally certain that my expertise that I could retrofit them with a bit of work.

                  One guy I know, tells his customers............"if it's difficult or impossible, call Tom"
                  Last edited by Tom Bainbridge; 04-21-2012, 04:22 PM.
                  Limey Carpenter

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Wood DBL hung wdw- adding spring balance?

                    Thanks for the link Tom, I've never heard of Mighton until now.
                    http://www.mightonproducts.com/
                    Unfortunately Reddiseals doesn't ship to the US without a phone call ($$)
                    http://www.reddiseals.com/

                    I've been doing more and more of these old windows so if you or anyone else have any other online suppliers I'd appreciate a link. TIA

                    NE,
                    I've used these with decent results but I wasn't dealing with a historic job.
                    http://windowweight.com/default.aspx
                    -Dennis

                    Can someone PLEASE invent a sarcasm font!

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                    • #11
                      Re: Wood DBL hung wdw- adding spring balance?

                      warrior,
                      one of the things the site you put up talks about insulating the pocket weight area. Are you doing that and with what? Reason I ask is I know that it is usually a 3 or 4 inch hole that is the lenght of the window on both sides so there is some potential for energy loss there. But I have yet to see any window company ever talk about insulating that area. And unless you can take the trim off how much and how well the insulation is done and how effective it is will be unknown.

                      While I have replaced a lot of ropes and sash chains in old homes and have most of the parts readily available when I see a sash tape/spring broken I know it is a different item to take care of for me. Not much of a fan of them but have probably only worked on a dozen of them compared to a couple hundred sash rope and chain type windows.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Wood DBL hung wdw- adding spring balance?

                        I agree with keeping the weight and pulley system. If changes have been made to the glazing or if one of the ropes is broken you obviously have to check the weight pockets and make sure the sash and weights are in proper balance.

                        A thoughtful approach to weatherstripping must be included in the overall retrofit and as has been mentioned check the exterior for proper "air sealing" at the jamb/exterior finish interface.

                        We recently completed a retrofitting of 21 windows in a 150+ year old building. We tightened up the sash fit with various weatherstripping and air infiltration seemed to have been well controlled. I was particularly annoyed to find an incredible draft at the pulleys on a windy day. The owner had the exterior of the jambs and brick molding prepped and painted two years earlier and I could remember seeing a crew working on the exterior when we were doing some plaster work in another part of the structure at that time. When I opened one of the windows and looked at the brick/ window joint I just shook my head...., no sealant at all and a nice 3/16" gap around the perimeter of the units. So much for painters!!!!. The owner is going to have them come back but considering their original oversight I don't think it is a wise choice to have them do this work.

                        As for "Mighton Sash hardware", I remember them making an appearance at a national restoration show several years ago and I believe they had established an office in Florida. I remember one of the items at the show was a remote control rack and gear driven sash operator for DH windows. I have a phone number for them. I will have to call tomorrow to see what their USA status is.
                        "ALS IK KAN" - Stickley

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                        • #13
                          Re: Wood DBL hung wdw- adding spring balance?

                          Originally posted by calvert View Post
                          When I opened one of the windows and looked at the brick/ window joint I just shook my head...., no sealant at all and a nice 3/16" gap around the perimeter of the units. So much for painters!!!!.
                          Very typical. I describe that problem on my web site:
                          http://chicagogreenwindows.com/case-...blem-painters/

                          How many perfectly good windows have been torn out for want of 10 minutes work and a half tube of calk?
                          "If you only have a hammer, all problems look like nails"

                          Vintage wood window repair and restoration in Chicago
                          Wood storm windows in Chicago
                          Weatherizing vintage buildings in Chicago

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Wood DBL hung wdw- adding spring balance?

                            hdrider

                            We don't (read.......... didn't) install box sashes the way you do but your sentiments of half a tube of caulk and10 minutes work is very similar attitude

                            .......... as opposed to several thousand pounds worth or more of uPVC replacement IF you are outside an historic area

                            those several thousand pounds worth of savings (in the UK) can in certian circumstances devalue the property by 5 times the cost of the uPVC work!
                            Limey Carpenter

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