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I took my RRP class...What a joke!

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  • I took my RRP class...What a joke!

    I have a few estimates out on pre-1978 houses so it was time to take the class. There were 18 or 19 of us in the class. A few landlords, a plumber, an HVAC guy, and the rest were remodelers (I use that term loosely for some of them). The general attitude of the class was "I can't believe the Gov't is forcing us to take a class and pay money". I can understand that as a viewpoint from someone who does neat work, but I imagine most of these guys are of the "rake the paint chips into the soil instead of actually cleaning" type. The class was priced at $99 through the NJ Department of Community Affairs (they are in charge of HUD and multi-family in NJ).

    The instructors: The main instructor was a nice guy who taught carpentry at the local Vo-Tech school. He was quite good at reading directly from the slides in the presentation. Not so good at adding additional information. I don't think he has actually run an RRP job in his life. 3 additional instructors showed up for the hands on portion. The only one that has touched a tool in the past 10 years was a painter. As a whole, there knowledge of the law was limited to what was in the training book.

    The instructors were convinced that the HEPA vac filter and bag needed to be thrown out after every job. They got stumped when I asked how you vacuum up after removing the filter and bag and tossing them in the trash. They also seemed upset when I mentioned using a Dust Deputy type tool in line with the vacuum to allow the filter to have more life. The one instructor then decided to explain that Dyson vacuums were not appropriate for RRP cleanup (since that is obviously what I was talking about when I said Dust Deputy.

    The course book: Seemed to repeat itself a lot. The 150-200 slides could easily be cut down to 50. I especially liked the 1980s or early 90s videos that were embedded with no context.

    The hands on section: I now know how to put on a Tyvek suit and how to make door from plastic...thanks EPA! I also like the truly scientific dust wiping card. I take my swiffer cloth and match it to a picture...that is the DUMBEST concept ever. Not only does it open the door for blatant lying, but that can't be an accurate way to test cleanliness. Also, the color on the cloth that represents the acceptable bottom end of the spectrum is not acceptable to anyone that cares about keeping their clients house clean.

    The test: I scored a 96%. I'm pretty sure I forgot to answer one of the questions. I was the first out of the class. That's not to brag that I'm a better student...I'm not. I pretty much ignored most of what the instructors said after a few minutes of the class.

    I can say that I was the most informed of everyone in that room thanks to these forums and reading articles in JLC, Remodeling, etc. I actually reread Deans article from January the night before class, but didn't have the nerve to mention placing the dumpster in the containment zone...instructors' brains would have exploded.

    I don't understand why the class isn't more like the SAT. Study by yourself, come in on a Saturday, take the test (they can even make it harder if they want), and do a hands on portion. 3-4 hours tops instead of the 9 hours on a Thursday that I had to endure. I guarantee that half of the people in my class will not be following the rules on their next job and "plastic dust protection" will remain outside of their vocabulary. All in all, the class (both participants and material that we covered) made me realize why our industry gets a bad reputation. 90% of the construction industry doesn't give a crap about quality or cleanliness.
    "American political opportunities are heavily loaded against those who are simultaneously intelligent and honest" --Richard Dawkins

  • #2
    Re: I took my RRP class...What a joke!

    Well, no surprise there.

    I went through class sitting next to a commercial painting contractor. There were a couple things "new" to him, but for the most part the requirements were all less than what he was used to. That, and he was shocked that so little was gone over about protecting workers.

    Hey- here's a shot of what happens in shipyards- and there's no lead paint where this guy's working.

    Click image for larger version

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    http://www.lavrans.com

    "He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp posts; for support rather than illumination." -Andrew Lang

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    • #3
      Re: I took my RRP class...What a joke!

      Originally posted by JayNos View Post
      I don't understand why the class isn't more like the SAT. Study by yourself, come in on a Saturday, take the test (they can even make it harder if they want), and do a hands on portion. 3-4 hours tops instead of the 9 hours on a Thursday that I had to endure.
      I give students the option of doing the learning on the Internet and then coming in for the hands on, review and test. In fact, I do it both ways where the student have the opportunity to do Internet (at their own pace) or the full class.

      I also have a "After 8" course that I do, where I go into more of how to sell RRP jobs and how to make RRP easier (faster at less cost).

      You ought to be happy with your course. I hear the EPA was wanting to make it a 3 day course, until they decided to do a 1 day course

      I come from a little different perspective than other instructors. I've actually done tons of RRP jobs and even some HUD jobs. This is why I always harp on understanding what is actually required VS what is taught from the book.

      A big difference. A big difference to the contractor's pocketbook too
      Dean

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      • #4
        Re: I took my RRP class...What a joke!

        Dean:

        In this situation I wasn't the contractor, I was the expert witness called in when a window replacement company started the installation of PVC windows in a 15 unit apartment building, their caulking leaked water into Styrofoam they filled around the windows and mold started growing in the Styrofoam. when I saw the mold I had the owner immediately evacuate the two affected apartments and I called in my air quality expert, then had the owners employ a remediation company to remediate the mold, which also included lead paint.

        Why doesn't everyone just do this, bring in experts and have the owner employ them? BTW, the case settled instead of going to court, the contractor paid $50,000 + attorneys fees including costs (in which were included my fees).
        You will ask what goal the U.S. is pursuing? .... their external debt is huge, and ruining other countries is their customary method. Even ownership of the global 'printing press' is no longer helping. Nor is full control over NATO, None of that if enough for the 21st century colonizers. They don't just need to preserve the dollar as the only global currency but also to get their hands on the economic wealth of other large powers and regions. - Sergei Naryshkin

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        • #5
          Re: I took my RRP class...What a joke!

          There are two reasons for the law.

          One: impose more regulations on hardworking Americans so fees and fines can be imposed increasing revenue for our "efficiently" run government.

          Two: Increase the use of plastic because not enough of it is in the oceans and landfills.
          Gary

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          • #6
            Re: I took my RRP class...What a joke!

            The lead paint issue, as well as the mold issue, are mostly a scam by control freak people in the government. In the grand scheme of things, the lead paint that exists in a few houses is not a threat to anything, unless someone is going to scrape it off the walls and start eating it as if it's corn flakes. Mold can be a problem if the moisture situation that allows it to grow isn't abated, but it's not something out of a sci-fi horror movie as the government depicts. Common sense is not ruling on these two issue.
            "I would remind you that extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. And let me remind you also, that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."
            --Barry Goldwater AD 1964

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            • #7
              Re: I took my RRP class...What a joke!

              Originally posted by Dick Seibert View Post
              Dean:

              Why doesn't everyone just do this, bring in experts and have the owner employ them?
              A good alternative, if one can sell the job with the added cost.
              Dean

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              • #8
                Re: I took my RRP class...What a joke!

                Opinions on if lead is an issue or not is often entertaining and everyone has the right to express their opinion. However, as a contractor, it often embarrasses me about our industry to hear such speculations.

                Especially since I work with kids that have been lead poisoned directly or indirectly from contractors multiple times a month.
                Dean

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                • #9
                  Re: I took my RRP class...What a joke!

                  Originally posted by Dean
                  Especially since I work with kids that have been lead poisoned directly or indirectly from contractors multiple times a month.
                  Dean:

                  Could you please describe the socioeconomic and ethnic background of those affected kids?
                  You will ask what goal the U.S. is pursuing? .... their external debt is huge, and ruining other countries is their customary method. Even ownership of the global 'printing press' is no longer helping. Nor is full control over NATO, None of that if enough for the 21st century colonizers. They don't just need to preserve the dollar as the only global currency but also to get their hands on the economic wealth of other large powers and regions. - Sergei Naryshkin

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                  • #10
                    Re: I took my RRP class...What a joke!

                    Originally posted by Dick Seibert View Post
                    ...the socioeconomic and ethnic background of those affected kids?
                    Hmm.........
                    “I find the curiosity of our men with respect to this animal is pretty much satisfied.”
                    ~ Meriwether Lewis

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                    • #11
                      Re: I took my RRP class...What a joke!

                      If ignorance is truly bliss then I see a lot of blissed out posters here.

                      Lead poisoning is not limited demographically.
                      www.train2rebuild.com
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                      • #12
                        Re: I took my RRP class...What a joke!

                        Dick is just asking for the data on this subject.

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                        • #13
                          Re: I took my RRP class...What a joke!

                          The lead paint issue, as well as the mold issue, are mostly a scam by control freak people in the government
                          Are we talking about the same Dick?
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                          • #14
                            Re: I took my RRP class...What a joke!

                            Originally posted by Dick Seibert View Post
                            Dean:

                            Could you please describe the socioeconomic and ethnic background of those affected kids?
                            Socioeconomic is a broad term with many usages. However, I think I understand how you are using it. I would not be a good one to ask, since most of my EBL investigations are on upper income folks. Caucasians are the bulk with some middle eastern.

                            For the average, I feel that poor folks are over weighted with issues, since they can't (or won't) do repairs to deteriorated lead based paint. Middle class tend to get problems when they do DIY. Mid to upper end folks tend to hire the contractors.

                            From my personal experience, race has very little to do with it. When a 2 year old sucks in 2000 mcg ... it much doesn't matter what skin color. Income has a lot to do with it. The exceptions would be certain ethnic groups that use spices and ceremonial powders or remedies.
                            Last edited by Dean CRCNA; 04-30-2012, 01:58 PM.
                            Dean

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                            • #15
                              Re: I took my RRP class...What a joke!

                              Dean, would it be safe to say they are predominantly homo sapiens living in homes built before 1978?

                              And as far as I can see there is no one demographic with a preponderance of propensities for elevated BLL.
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