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Rake Crown Mouldings with No Transitions

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  • Rake Crown Mouldings with No Transitions

    Sloped ceilings with rake crown moulding with transition pieces looks good, however a sloped ceiling with rake crown moulding with no transition pieces looks even better.


    http://sbebuilders.blogspot.com/2014...ansitions.html

    Sim

    crown_horizontal_rake_all_1_2.jpgDSC_6024.jpgcrown-rolled_2.jpg
    Elucidation of the stuff is self evident
    http://www.sbebuilders.com/tools
    http://www.raftertools.com/
    http://www.raftertools.com/iPhone/plus/

  • #2
    Re: Rake Crown Mouldings with No Transitions

    Sim,
    That looks like amateur-land and silly. You of all people should know that crown molding fillets must be plumb--that's the way the molding is designed. To run crown up and down a rake properly, you need different profiles for the rake and the returns.

    Also, try your 'rolling' method on a pitch that exceeds 6/12 and you'll see just how silly it really looks.
    Gary

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Rake Crown Mouldings with No Transitions

      Gary,

      6 years ago I did a study on rolled crown moulding and thought it looked pretty bad as a finish product. That was before I saw the rake crown moulding at The Moulding Shop.

      http://www.sbebuilders.com/octagon/c...ior_angles.php

      The problem with that study was the crown moulding I used. 4" in that study with a spring angle of 43° and it had too many lines in the profile. After looking at the 6" colonial crown moulding in the showroom of The Moulding Shop in Concord California I've changed my mind. 3" or 4" rake ceiling crown moulding looks pretty good with transition pieces, but the 5" or larger crown moulding looks too busy at the wall corners with all the transition pieces.

      Link to more pictures of all of the crown moulding and fireplace mantel at The Moulding Shop.

      https://plus.google.com/photos/10452...24811872983329

      Here's a couple of pictures of rolled crown moulding from a job I was on 4 years ago. Transition pieces at this wall corner would have looked silly.

      Sim
      Rolled-2.jpgRolled-1.jpg
      Elucidation of the stuff is self evident
      http://www.sbebuilders.com/tools
      http://www.raftertools.com/
      http://www.raftertools.com/iPhone/plus/

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Rake Crown Mouldings with No Transitions

        Here are two videos from the late Joseph Fusco that are related to this thread.

        Joe does a great job explaining how to get past that head scratching transition

        "Cuttingt Crown for Vaulted Ceilings"

        Part 1
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E04SmcFTasY


        Part 2
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGq5izYTZjs
        Gary

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Rake Crown Mouldings with No Transitions

          Sim,
          I agree, transition pieces look silly in a LOT of homes--they have a Gothic appearance and do not fit with many architectural styles. But 'rolling' the crown is never acceptable because even one fillet that's running out of plumb throws off the spring angle and our eyes--creates confusion. Also, once you get over a 6/12 pitch, you can't roll the level molding to meet the rake molding--it's just not tall enough, and if you attempt to, it ends up installed almost FLAT on the wall--nothing looks worse than crown installed like baseboard, especially when it's nailed across the ceiling.

          That's why the proper way of doing rake crown is with three profiles--one for the rake molding (smallest), one for the level molding at the bottom (slightly larger), one for the return at the top (much larger).
          Here's a video I shot recently for an article that Jed Dixon, Keith Mathewson, and Todd Murdock are working on for TiC.
          Gary
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vjn_gHMmq_c

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Rake Crown Mouldings with No Transitions

            _MG_4468.jpg_MG_4470.jpg_MG_4471.jpgSim,
            Here's some pictures that I just shot this morning--Keith is at my place right now and we just finished shooting video and pictures of his method for making the three different profiles--from the drawings to using molding planes. It's been an exceptional experience for me.

            Gary

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Rake Crown Mouldings with No Transitions

              DSC_0011.jpgDSC_0012.jpgSim,
              I just looked at the photos you mentioned from The Molding Shop. Perfect example of folks who are making pediments and working with raked crown who either don't understand how to do it correctly (Get Your House Right, pg. 84-85, or any Asher Benjamin book), or they are just trying to save money by using the same profiles. All the Molding Shop has done is returned the molding at the top and bottom of the pediment using the same profiles cut at simple 45 degree miters--no bevel or plumb cuts at the top of the open pediment or at the bottom of the raking molding. As a high-end framer, you should recognize the shortcut and how 'mean' it looks.

              Here's one of the photos I found on their website.
              Gary

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Rake Crown Mouldings with No Transitions

                Did Keith forget to bring his hat?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Rake Crown Mouldings with No Transitions

                  it was early and he had his coffee in his hand so no hat yet

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Rake Crown Mouldings with No Transitions

                    _MG_4425.jpgOh geeez, I really screwed up there! I promised I wouldn't show anyone that picture. Here's the right one! Sorry Keith! That's like publishing a photo of Clark Kent without his glasses...or Dr. Donald Blake without his cane!!!

                    But we really did have a great time. I enjoyed a private class on laying out rake molding and cutting the molding with molding planes. Truly amazing...even more amazing than a comic book.

                    Gary

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Rake Crown Mouldings with No Transitions

                      Hey, if I didn't know better I'd think you guys were giving me a hard time. You might all be getting hats for Christmas:)
                      If you bat 1000 you're playing in the minor leagues.

                      Warren Buffet

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Rake Crown Mouldings with No Transitions

                        Gary,

                        Excellent video on making 3 piece rake moulding.

                        terminology in the video
                        Pitch of the rake moulding --> Slope Angle or
                        Slope Angle of Pediment Top , not the pitch of the rake moulding.

                        The miter cuts are examples of cutting bed moulding. Which is the same as cutting fascia. So I wouldn't say to cut the fascia at the pitch of the fascia. I would say cut the fascia plumb cut at the slope angle of the roof.

                        With Sketchup drawings with label this video will be one of the best ones yet. It will be interesting to see Todd draw the three different rake moulding profiles.

                        Sim
                        Elucidation of the stuff is self evident
                        http://www.sbebuilders.com/tools
                        http://www.raftertools.com/
                        http://www.raftertools.com/iPhone/plus/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Rake Crown Mouldings with No Transitions

                          Originally posted by Gary Katz View Post
                          [ATTACH=CONFIG]30167[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]30168[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]30169[/ATTACH]Sim,
                          Here's some pictures that I just shot this morning--Keith is at my place right now and we just finished shooting video and pictures of his method for making the three different profiles--from the drawings to using molding planes. It's been an exceptional experience for me.

                          Gary
                          This is exactly what we need.
                          "from the drawings to using molding planes"

                          A couple of months ago someone asked me how to cut the miter & bevel cuts on 38° exterior rake crown moulding using the same material for both the horizontal and rake crown mouldings and keeping both pieces at the 38° spring angle. I never did come up with a satisfactory answer to the problem. Using the same spring angle for both pieces means the length of the miter cuts have to be the same length, so the miter angle on both pieces looks out of whack.

                          Sim
                          Elucidation of the stuff is self evident
                          http://www.sbebuilders.com/tools
                          http://www.raftertools.com/
                          http://www.raftertools.com/iPhone/plus/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Rake Crown Mouldings with No Transitions

                            After watching Jed Dixon video again, I saw that he draws the line on the side of bed moulding representing the back side of the crown moulding if he used 1x stock with shaper knifes-blades. I missed that the first time. This got me thinking about bed moulding versus crown moulding. If you remove the back of the bed moulding, then it's crown moulding. So the bed moulding is already in the nested position of the crown moulding in a miter box or compound miter saw. I thought this might be the key to finding the trigonometric formula for the miter and bevel angles for rake crown keeping the same spring angle on the horizontal and rake pieces, but no luck.

                            Here's some drawings I did searching for the trigonometric formula.

                            Sim

                            crown_rake_profile_6.jpgcrown_rake_profile_3.jpgcrown_rake_profile_4.jpg
                            Elucidation of the stuff is self evident
                            http://www.sbebuilders.com/tools
                            http://www.raftertools.com/
                            http://www.raftertools.com/iPhone/plus/

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Rake Crown Mouldings with No Transitions

                              Here's some more drawings I did searching for the trigonometric formula.

                              Sim

                              crown_rake_profile_14.jpgcrown_rake_profile_9.jpgcrown_rake_profile_9a.jpg
                              Elucidation of the stuff is self evident
                              http://www.sbebuilders.com/tools
                              http://www.raftertools.com/
                              http://www.raftertools.com/iPhone/plus/

                              Comment

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