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  • #61
    Re: The infamous "stacked" fireplace

    jwork,

    The vertical elements in the triglyphs are called femurs (like the bone) and they are indeed beveled. They come from the Doric order, stereotypically with six guttae (small pegs hanging down), but shown here with five. The Triglyph mantle that Gary posted is very interesting with all of its subtle rule-bends, and reminds me of the Edwardian style, a robust form of Neoclassicism.
    Last edited by GrandTradition; 01-03-2006, 04:39 PM.
    Gregory F. Shue

    GrandTradition.net Webmaster
    Free Articles, CAD Files, Forum, & News

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    • #62
      Re: The infamous "stacked" fireplace

      OT OH!
      Gary bent the rules?!?!!!!!

      Just kidding... do you assemble that with individual "femurs" Gary, or build it some other way?

      -J
      -----------------------------------------------------
      "Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." -Albert Einstein
      Cluelessness: There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.

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      • #63
        Re: The infamous "stacked" fireplace

        Originally posted by GrandTradition
        The vertical elements in the triglyphs are called femurs (like the bone) and they are indeed beveled. They come from the Doric order, stereotypically with six guttae (small pegs hanging down), but shown here with five. The Triglyph mantle that Gary posted is very interesting with all of its subtle rule-bends, and reminds me of the Edwardian style, a robust form of Neoclassicism.
        Wow...you are going to be a welcome addition around here. I've moved my dictionary from a drawer to my desktop.

        Cheers, Wm.

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        • #64
          Re: The infamous "stacked" fireplace

          Yeah, I busted the rule book on the guttae drops. There are supposed to be six, two centered over each "shank" (my dictionary calls them "shanks or femurs or shank femurs, while the flutes are called "gains"--I'm not trying to say that the language is a necessity, but it's kind of fun, too). I'm pretty amused that someone caught that! The guttae drops are supposed to resemble rain drops. Someone once told me that they're also supposed to resemble tears, but I've never read that anywhere.

          The reason I made five instead of six is because I couldn't make them small enough and I also wanted to make them really tall/elongated. When you see how I made them, you'll understand very quickly.

          In a couple more days I'll get some pics up on my site about making that mantelpice. The mantelpiece is in a Beaux Arts homes, so Jwok is right again. That period was marked by another revival of neoclassicism--a time when most architects of merit in the U.S. studied in France at the Ecole des Beaux Arts, or something like that.

          Gary

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          • #65
            Re: The infamous "stacked" fireplace

            Off topic-

            Just a follow-up on the White Pine Series of books I mentioned earlier:. The link below takes you to an Alibris search results page. The first 8 titles are worth every penny, and then some - measured drawings of historic architecture, mainly residential! Fantastic stuff. Result #3 has a Builders' Companion at the end.

            http://www.alibris.com/search/books/...ciety%2C%20and

            Check out http://www.grandtradition.net/images...20Assembly.jpg to see an educated guess about the origin of the Doric order (from wood construction, no doubt!). The accompanying article can be found at http://www.grandtradition.net/content/view/39/27/


            Best to all
            Gregory F. Shue

            GrandTradition.net Webmaster
            Free Articles, CAD Files, Forum, & News

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            • #66
              Re: The infamous "stacked" fireplace

              This is a great thread- really fascinating stuff. The more I learn, the dumber I feel.
              "If you only have a hammer, all problems look like nails"

              Vintage wood window repair and restoration in Chicago
              Wood storm windows in Chicago
              Weatherizing vintage buildings in Chicago

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              • #67
                Re: The infamous "stacked" fireplace

                Gary, have you ever thought about doing another book focused on the DESIGN of interior elements and trim details? I have never seen your slide show, but it sounds like that, your knowledge of classic proportions, your practical experience, your vast library of photographs, and discussions of stuff like "guttae drops", etc. would allow you to provide insight and examples not available anywhere else.

                It would take a lot of thinking to organize all that knowledge in a way that a person could get their arms around, but I bet you could make it work.
                I'd buy a book like that in a hearbeat.
                "If you only have a hammer, all problems look like nails"

                Vintage wood window repair and restoration in Chicago
                Wood storm windows in Chicago
                Weatherizing vintage buildings in Chicago

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                • #68
                  Re: The infamous "stacked" fireplace

                  One neat source for photographs and measured drawings is the archive of the Historic American Building Survey. Originally paid for by Uncle Sam, to keep architects busy during the depression, the HABS project continues to this day. Many of the buildings that were photographed and measured are no longer extant. Others have become museums. Give the database a search for buildings in your local area and then see what photos and drawings are available. (By house Name, architect, city etc) They usually have links to high-resolution TIFF files for the archived items.

                  This is the search dialog
                  http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/hhquery.html

                  The photos have text descriptions so you can search that data. For example, search "mantle" and get 100 buildings listed for which there is at least one picture (or drawing, etc) of a mantle. Then search through the pictures to find something you like. Study the designs because these buildings were "chosen" for inclusion.

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                  • #69
                    Re: The infamous "stacked" fireplace

                    Some examples to wet your appetite:
                    Don't forget that the images have high resolution TIFF (Tagged Image File Format) versions for you to download linked right underneath the screen size image. You can download those (BIG Files) and print them on your printer. If you don't have an image program, go to http://www.irfanview.com/ and get one for free.



                    Rowan Oak
                    http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage...(@lit(MS0259)))

                    One Room School House
                    http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage...28WY0088%29%29

                    Mark Twain House
                    http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage...28CT0332%29%29

                    Robie House
                    http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage...28IL0039%29%29

                    John Brown House
                    http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage.../~ammem_hU9o::

                    Isaac Bell House
                    http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage.../~ammem_0i1r::

                    John M. Davies House
                    http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage.../~ammem_4EdU::

                    Kingscote
                    http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage...(@lit(RI0060)))

                    Monticello
                    http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage.../~ammem_VJhU::

                    Mount Vernon
                    http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage.../~ammem_9zcz::

                    Williams-Harrison House
                    http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage...(@lit(NJ0511)))

                    Fallingwater
                    http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage.../~ammem_zvRy::

                    Leland Stanford House
                    http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage.../~ammem_PvZG::

                    Albert Gallatin House
                    http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage.../~ammem_PvZG::

                    Olana
                    http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage.../~ammem_WpA2::

                    Moses Yale Beach House
                    http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage.../~ammem_Py3Q::

                    John Pitkin Norton House
                    http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage.../~ammem_Py3Q::

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                    • #70
                      Re: The infamous "stacked" fireplace

                      Greene & Greene Architectural Records and Papers Collection, ca. 1896-ca. 1963
                      http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/eres.../avery/greene/

                      If you have the MrSID plugin for your browser, then you can look at the original plans.

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                      • #71
                        Re: The infamous "stacked" fireplace

                        Thanks for all those sites
                        "We do not see things as they are; we see things as we are" -Talmud

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                        • #72
                          Re: The infamous "stacked" fireplace

                          I was surprised Jeff didn't step in until now. With as many sites as he pulls down, I knew he'd have some great samples. This could be an odd question, but...

                          Jeff, did you ever just create a text document (or just a favorites/bookmarks backup file) of all the style-oriented links you've compiled? I suspect most of us would love a copy. Either that, or it may be time to create a serious, organized "useful links" design page here or with Gary - just a thought.

                          John S.

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                          • #73
                            Re: The infamous "stacked" fireplace

                            John,

                            I have not compiled a list of style-oriented links or anything like that. I don't normally bookmark websites anymore because all I end up with is a disorganized mess full out broken outdated links. It's really a huge amount of work to catalog and archive websites.

                            Besides that, I don't design anything anyway. That's the architect/designer's job on my projects so I never need to worry about the visuals (on the surface anyway). I posted all of those direct links to HABS by searching the site for house names and key words because I knew that a fair number of the forum users were not going to do it for themselves when presented with the primary link. I didn't have any of them bookmarked. The Greene & Greene archive was something I had found long ago and filed away in my head. I have never looked at those plans. I found it with Google seconds before I posted the link.

                            As far as the eyebrow roof links I posted in the framing forum a few days/weeks ago or the stair links I posted here way back, well that was all direct search too. I didn't have any of those sites bookmarked and I still don't. Of course they are permanently archived on the forum so anybody can use them now in that way.

                            I'm sure Gary would consider adding a useful links list to his site, but that would depend on the demand, and the number of submissions, not to mention the real usefulness of the list vs the time cost of adding to it and maintaining it. Lists like that start well and then nosedive over time. Just look at the forum gallery. I don't ever look there because the photos almost never change, so the value is limited to me.

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                            • #74
                              Re: The infamous "stacked" fireplace

                              Just finished some granite tile between fire box and mantle, and standing back to look at the proportions it became appartent that what seems to be a good size mantle for a given room to my eye is way "heavy" compared with the more traditional sizing Gary and others have shown.

                              Having lived in the rocky mountain region, I thought perhaps it's the influence of the large log homes and equally large fireplaces that's influenced what looks right. Then, looking for evidence of such, I've noticed mantles all over the place that would be considered large for the room size.

                              Am I imagining things or are we simply in a period of thick tastes?

                              Cheers,
                              Don

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                              • #75
                                Re: The infamous "stacked" fireplace

                                Don:

                                No, at risk of being called the code police again, I think you are seeing much more tile/marble/or other incombustible materials around the fireplace openings because of fire safety concerns in building codes.
                                Code (CBC/UBC anyway) requires a minimum of 6" incombustible material and then an additional 1" for every 1/8" wood projection until 12" where the incombustible requirements cease.
                                That means 12" if your wood sticks out a lousy ¾"!
                                You will ask what goal the U.S. is pursuing? .... their external debt is huge, and ruining other countries is their customary method. Even ownership of the global 'printing press' is no longer helping. Nor is full control over NATO, None of that if enough for the 21st century colonizers. They don't just need to preserve the dollar as the only global currency but also to get their hands on the economic wealth of other large powers and regions. - Sergei Naryshkin

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