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Average TIME.... NOT HOW MUCH ?

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  • Average TIME.... NOT HOW MUCH ?

    How long do you guys take to install an entry door ..... correctly ?

    After 26 years of doing this type of work, you would think that I was getting a little faster? Nope.

    I guess it's because I spend way too much time getting the details exactly right, at least in my mind. Maybe, I'm just as slow as shinola.... I don't know... but I was interested in how long you guys take to do this type of install.... real time and not what you would like it to be.

    I'll set the parameter.

    Door R.O. not plumb (1/2" out from sill to header), sill rotted out , brick facade.

    Here's the steps you would have to do to calculate time, although I'm not including every step, but just highlighting what I would set my mind into having to accomplish.

    Remove old storm and door.
    Remove and replace sill
    Install sill protection. (P&S)
    FABRICATE and install sill pan & seal to jamb
    Remove brickmold and install door frame ( I remove the door to make this easier)
    Shim & Seal the frame to building
    Reinstall brickmold & any accompanying trim required (brickmold required modification to fit into opening)
    Caulk brickmold / brick
    Install Storm
    Reinstall door including setting long screws in hinges
    Install door locksets
    Install striker / deadbolt reinforcement plates / cups / trim
    Adjustments if required
    Insulate door cavity to R.O. (I use expanding foam)
    Install basic trim on interior (remembering the that R.O. is NOT PLUMB )
    Clean up.
    Last edited by always-learning; 12-09-2009, 12:49 AM.
    Chuck

  • #2
    Re: Average TIME.... NOT HOW MUCH ?

    Here's a couple more to get the idea...


    BTW,

    It's a HD door that the H.O purchased and had delivered herself.... so you're just the labor and any accompanying materials required to do the job.
    Chuck

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    • #3
      Re: Average TIME.... NOT HOW MUCH ?

      Well- I just did something similar, so I can give you my numbers.

      Stucco house, original door wasn't installed or flashed correctly, and had been kicked in when someone broke in (fortunately, they were scared off by the alarm, unfortunately the left before the police got there).

      1. Pull door (I tried leaving the trim in place, but when I realized they hadn't done anything to flash the door I pulled it).
      2. Door supplied was pre-hung exterior door, but was too tall to fit the RO, so I had to cut down the jamb & door to fit by about 1". I cut from the top because the sill was... not a high quality job.
      3. Wood door in exposed location, so I painted the top & bottom (covering the entire bottom rail) with System3 Rot Fix.
      4. Prime door, jamb & trim (existing trim wasn't back-primed).
      5. Install pan- pan butted up to hardwood flooring.
      6. Wrap opening with peel & stick, sneaking it behind the existing WRB as much as possible (single layer of felt behind the stucco- that will be a problem at some point), and over the pan.
      6. Install door.
      7. Insulate gaps- then taped door to RO.
      8. Piece of 30# felt snuck behind the WRB at the head of the door.
      9. Install head flashing with up leg behind that piece of felt.
      10. Install the exterior trim (being stucco, and not wanting to disturb the stucco, hanging the door took a little longer than "normal", a thing I rarely run into with replacement doors).
      11. Install interior trim.
      12. Drill for hardware in door & jamb.
      13. Install hardware.
      14. Caulk Trim.
      15. Clean up and leave.

      5 hours, including run to hardware store to replace faulty handset, round trip from shop (about 15 minutes from shop). So- 4 1/2 hours total, or 3 1/2+ hours taking out hardware store trip.

      It has taken me longer, and taken less time. That big Walnut door I built took about 7 hours to install. Sidelights always adds time for some reason.
      http://www.lavrans.com

      "He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp posts; for support rather than illumination." -Andrew Lang

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      • #4
        Re: Average TIME.... NOT HOW MUCH ?

        Originally posted by Lavrans View Post
        Stucco house, ......
        Stucco....

        What insurance company do you have? For your GL ?


        Every insurance carrier I've contacted specifically has a declaration in their policies that there will be ZERO coverage for any work done on a home with a stucco exterior finish, regardless of old style stucco, or new. As matter of fact, my insurance producer told me that if I work on a house with stucco, and there is a claim filed, it's immediate grounds for policy cancellation.
        Chuck

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        • #5
          Re: Average TIME.... NOT HOW MUCH ?

          Good question. I think installing a new door in an old opening is the least favorite thing I do.

          Most of the siding here is clapboard, FC shingle, or vinyl, so I usually end up pulling or sawzalling the nails around the door so I can tuck my felt under. Takes more time.
          ANd of course there are the out of plumb and undersized openings and hidden rot which needs to be repaired.

          For a lot of old time carpenters here, it seems "pan flashing" was a foreign concept.

          I've seen guys pull a door, slap a new one in quick, clean up and be gone, but I can't bring myself to do that.

          A lot of customers want me to finish the door, too, and that's another whole story- finish the door, the jambs and brick, and interior trim.
          Last edited by S.Joisey; 12-09-2009, 08:14 AM.

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          • #6
            Re: Average TIME.... NOT HOW MUCH ?

            Chuck - same here about stucco - efis. Its the only exclusion I have along with environmental.

            As far as the door set is concerned from looking at the job to completion, pu the door set and the rest, reset my truck a bit I figure 12 - 14 hrs. Its a long 10 hr day plus the related stuff. I spend too much time on the details too.

            Finishing is a bit different deal. Prime, 1 - 2 coats latex, tape off the w/s and the rest....$180 - $225 addl. But I may up the install so the paint comes in lower....people fall out ?
            Last edited by Happy Home; 12-09-2009, 08:23 AM.
            Steve

            "Get three coffins ready" - A Fistful of Dollars 1964

            http://youtu.be/KZ_7br_3y54

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Average TIME.... NOT HOW MUCH ?

              I dont think I have ever had an insurance claim on any of my work much less a door.

              As for time always 4-6 hours I usually install new storm doors at the same time. Theres no race its the better part of a day and that what a plan for. Some people like to talk the whole time you try to work and then your own cell can slow things down.

              Chuck your asking for problems removing the brick molding on HD doors. I've done myself but not always those cheap finger joints break too easy.
              Tom

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Average TIME.... NOT HOW MUCH ?

                I can't remove or replace stucco, but as far as I understand, I can replace a door or window so long as I don't do anything to the stuccco.

                The major exclusions are generally to EIFS, with lesser exclusions to traditional scratch-coat stucco, which is what this house was. EIFS systems I have an EIFS certified contractor come and do all work that interfaces with it.
                http://www.lavrans.com

                "He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp posts; for support rather than illumination." -Andrew Lang

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Average TIME.... NOT HOW MUCH ?

                  Originally posted by Lavrans View Post

                  EIFS systems I have an EIFS certified contractor come and do all work that interfaces with it.
                  Would that process not be under your scope as well, or do you only arrange the meeting and not get compensated from the client or EIFS sub?
                  Richie Poor

                  See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil, value engineer your unit prices.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Average TIME.... NOT HOW MUCH ?

                    Rebuilding the sills is a time killer. Most of the door I change are prehung oak saddle doors that the builder must have used a hachet to notch out the rim joist and floor joist to compensate the sill hieght.
                    Tom

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Average TIME.... NOT HOW MUCH ?

                      Originally posted by Top Notch View Post
                      Rebuilding the sills is a time killer. Most of the door I change are prehung oak saddle doors that the builder must have used a hachet to notch out the rim joist and floor joist to compensate the sill hieght.
                      I see that a lot around here too.

                      Actually, we were supposed to replace a door today, but I didn't think today would be a good day to leave a BIG hole in someone's house for a few hours!
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                      • #12
                        Re: Average TIME.... NOT HOW MUCH ?

                        At least your working. Im dead again. Last door I installed was before Thanksgiving. After dealing with a lousey customer and situation the guy says send me a bill. I was fumming. I just called today and the guy says he never got the bill send another one. Good times
                        Tom

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Average TIME.... NOT HOW MUCH ?

                          Originally posted by Lavrans View Post
                          I can't remove or replace stucco, but as far as I understand, I can replace a door or window so long as I don't do anything to the stuccco.

                          The major exclusions are generally to EIFS, with lesser exclusions to traditional scratch-coat stucco, which is what this house was. EIFS systems I have an EIFS certified contractor come and do all work that interfaces with it.
                          Lavrans,

                          I believe that there is wording, at least in my insurance declarations, that any work that "touches" stucco, is also not allowed. Maybe we should both re-read our exclusions.

                          I spoke to the rep at the agency. She said that caulking up against stucco is considered working on stucco. By contact, you're accepting responsibility that the seal you're providing will protect the materials along / under / beneath the stucco. I remember speaking with her last year about this, because I was passing up may jobs to change windows in doors because the houses were clad with EIFS.
                          Chuck

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                          • #14
                            Re: Average TIME.... NOT HOW MUCH ?

                            Originally posted by Top Notch View Post

                            Chuck your asking for problems removing the brick molding on HD doors. I've done myself but not always those cheap finger joints break too easy.
                            The brickmold practically fell off. It was one of those FR doors. Most of the craftsmanship was what I would consider normal, but the door was a bit too long, and the sweep was damaged due to it's proximity to the saddle. I readjusted the saddle but it was already damaged.
                            Chuck

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Average TIME.... NOT HOW MUCH ?

                              Originally posted by Happy Home View Post
                              Chuck - same here about stucco - efis. Its the only exclusion I have along with environmental.

                              As far as the door set is concerned from looking at the job to completion, pu the door set and the rest, reset my truck a bit I figure 12 - 14 hrs. Its a long 10 hr day plus the related stuff. I spend too much time on the details too.

                              ..people fall out ?
                              Thank you....

                              I know that my time wasn't that far off, although I did create a surround with pilasters on the inside due to the out of plumb wall, and her need to be nicer than the average trim surround...


                              What is "People fall out"
                              Chuck

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