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  • Nails, screews, or glue

    What is the most widely accepted method to achieve the best quality drywall job. The drywall sub I use does a wonderful job but I was surprised to see him nailing up the board. His method is to glue all the studs, nail the perimiter, and a few nails in the field. On the ceiling he doesn't use glue, nails the perimtier, and screws the field. Personally I glue everything, use a few nails to hold the board up, then screw.

  • #2
    Re: Nails, screews, or glue

    I screw and glue it all, walls and ceilings, less screws on walls

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    • #3
      Re: Nails, screews, or glue

      I use nails and glue on walls, glue and screws on ceilings.

      The manufacturers of the stuff here recommend nailing/screwing the perimeter of wall sheets and letting the glue alone handle the rest of it.
      Not quite good enough for me, despite what they say. As I make sure my walls are flat I figgure the "extra" fixing can only help.

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      • #4
        Dap DryBoard Glue

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        • #5
          Re: Nails, screews, or glue

          I wasnt aware that some glues could break down. In any case I figgure that they only get a bond on the paper. A nail or screw has a strong mechanical grab on the entire thickness. Has to be better.

          If sheets are not already dead flat before installation, then a lack of fixing in the centre of the sheet will leave it curved or "bulging". Hardly conducive to a quality finish.
          If the plaster guy wants to gripe about the number of nails etc I use, well, too bad. At least its solid.

          I dont know about you guys, but our nails are "passivated". A large head,gold coloured finish and a ring shank for better hold. seems to work.

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          • #6

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            • #7
              Re: Nails, screews, or glue

              Adam,
              glues break down, but if it takes 300 years, not many people will care. I just wonder what the life is. I'm not saying don't use glue because they break down. I'm sure they are fine for 50 years, I just wonder what happens after 100 years.

              And Adam, we've already had the paper/vs. glue holding power debate. It's a matter (area of paper) * (holding power of paper per area). This applies to glue and screws. (paper on the front of the board is stronger than on the back) When you multipe them, you get holding power. Because the glue has such a massive area advantage, it stomps the nail/screw on total holding power. I've tried to pull one off the wall before (try it your self as Bill says). It's easier to pull off a nailed or glued panel.
              Even the pure mechanical bond on nail/screw is limited by the strength of the outside paper. Poped nails don't count.
              Hang a sheet with 3 nails and pull it off. Hang 1/2 plywood with the same 3 fastners and try to pull it off.
              Nailing requires more skill(than screws). Overdriven or even breaking the paper on one side of the nail head greatly weakens the holding power (because the paper is where it gets virtuall all it's strength.

              Glue forms a chemical bond between the paper/glue boundry and the glue/stud boundry; but this is also a mechanical bond.

              >> ring shanked nail
              Good idea. I'm going to try that for my perimeters.

              Another good test is given by Bedros in the post I list here. Search (start) where Bedros writes to Wes : "Lets do an experiment:"




              Nails/Screws vs glue

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              • #8
                Re: Nails, screews, or glue

                Bill,Rick

                I agree totally. Trying to rip off a glued sheet is a frustrating job. Nails only is a breeze.

                Fortunately most of the stuff I have to remove is pre glue. The odd occaision where I have to tackle a glued one I end up chiseling lumps of glue and plaster off the wall. No way they come off otherwise.
                I cant recall ever having a problem with nail popping. As I make sure the walls are flat, I assume that the sheet isnt under any undue stress in one area, and as the framing shrinks ( has to be a small amount cos its all kiln dried ) it will do so at the same rate. so, no popping.
                My theory anyway.

                The ring shanked nails do seem to hold better. The common ones prior to these were hot dipped zinc coated flat heads. The hot dipped holds better than "smooth" coatings, presumably cos its slightly rough.

                As for glue, the recommended here is a water based tub of blue coloured stuff. Grab a blob with a stick and splat it on.
                My favourite is Fuller MaxBond. Comes in tubes, costs more but is universal cos it doesnt hurt plastic/acrylic. Grabs like nothing else. Wood to wood..........there forever.

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                • #9
                  Re: Nails, screews, or glue

                  Fellas,

                  Actually nails hold the sheetrock better than screws, but screws hold onto the wood better. The nail has a larger head and smaller shank, thus it holds the rock better. The screw has a smaller difference between the head and the shank..thus more area to hold the rock with the nail.

                  The problem comes into being on where the nail or screw is placed on the stud. If a nail is on the edge of a stud it will split wood and not hold while a screw may not split the wood. Thus if a nail is placed in the middle of a stud, it will hold well and as the stud shrinks (and they all do) it will hold the nail well ..the same is true for the screw. That's why on the perimeter of the board if the nail is placed in the middle which you can see on the tapered seam -no problem. Same is true on the upper and lower portions of the walls. On the upper portion, the tape should cover it and on the lower the wood base will hide it..that's why you never see those pop..same is true on the taped middle seam.

                  Best way is to glue the dickens out of it, nail the perimeter and use screws in the interior as much as you like..but the less screws the better.

                  Adam, I cannot believe you never had nail pops in the interior of a board as the main cause of pops and drywall failure is wood shrinkage and when the wood shinks it will pop a screw or a nail.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Nails, screews, or glue

                    Steve

                    I may have had nail pops, but nobody has ever complained or so much as mentioned it.
                    The most common finish method is paint, so pops would be very obvious.
                    The kiln dried timber we use it pretty stable. Some shrinkage occurs when it is exposed for an extended period during baking hot summer days. Otherwise..........nope.

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                    • #11

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                      • #12
                        Re: Nails, screews, or glue

                        Rick

                        I dont think I am an exceptional nailer. Believe me I have my share of misses,bends etc.
                        However I pull out the ones that dont get a proper bite or bend.
                        I find nailing easier to do with consistency. For some reason screws like to go that wee bit too far and break the paper. Practice maybe........

                        After reading this thread, today it was running through my head as I screwed off some ceiling sheets. Instead of my usual amount I used way less.

                        You guys are getting to me.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Nails, screews, or glue

                          As an apprentice I was taught to *toenail* misses (faster than pulling the missed nail - axes have no good puller) ( Hay, we should have a religous debate on Round head (for wimps) vrs Square head axes (for real men :))

                          Maybe I'm completely wrong about nails vs screws then. I've never done an objective test. This would be difficut to do, but maybe steve is right. (did anyone read the building professor who tested toenailing trusses vs using metal hangers? He had to drill the toeNail path before driving the nail - but the hanger still proved to be far superior (for hurricane))

                          --rick

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                          • #14
                            Re: Nails, screews, or glue

                            Fellas,

                            Those of you who are quality oriented drywallers should read this link...and I'm going to give a quiz on Sunday..you fail..you will be called a typical drywaller as in "that's how we all do it now where's my check".

                            http://www.umass.edu/bmatwt/publications/articles/detailing_for_wood_shrinkage.html

                            and keep on reading the link cause it gets to pops, cracks, bad seams..ya know..what they talk about when they say your work..well "stinks" ;-)

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                            • #15
                              Re: Nails, screews, or glue

                              Metal studs no glue all screws no shrinkage, no pops.

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