Lead In Tile

[Dean CRCNA]

posted this elsewhere, but thought it might be interesting for you guys.

some math

Yesterday, did an interior lead inspection for a large 1946 home (31 rooms). Found it to be lead based paint free (per definition). Contractors were remodeling several areas. One such area was one child's bathroom. Decided to test the tile around tub/shower and the tub itself.

Tile tested 42.4 mcg/cm2. New record for me. A very high content of lead.

Came home and did some math.

lead clearance levels for floors is 40 mcg/ft2. A Rochester study showed that 20% of children exposed to a floor dust lead level of 40 mcg/ ft2 had blood lead levels greater than 10 mcg/dL. New research is showing that IQ drop can happen around 5 mcg/dl. Sometimes even lower.

If a person was to sand off the glaze of a 1' x 1' section of those tiles, it would produce enough lead dust (if equal spread out) to cause 420 homes (average size 2,300 sq ft.) to fail clearance (floor).

Now I know that we don't go around sanding tile, but busting out tile (or tubs) during demo can sure cause problems.

[BeachBoy]

Re: Lead In Tile

Dean, I'm wary of the tub/tile lead issue too, but both generally fracture rather than powder. It would be interesting to test after a demo to see if there really is an issue or not.

[MarkMc]

Re: Lead In Tile

Dean, I'm wary of the tub/tile lead issue too, but both generally fracture rather than powder. It would be interesting to test after a demo to see if there really is an issue or not.

Read this for fun:

http://www.oregonlive.com/environmen...rcury_spi.html

Then ask if, given the levels Dean indicates and knowing that little 'fractured' bits of the glaze can be effectively ground to dust using nothing more than a pair of rubber soled boots and a common walking surface.... but yes, the follow on test would be interesting to see.

[Dean CRCNA]

Re: Lead In Tile

I've actually have done test. One particular was busting up a cast iron tub that had 40 mcg/cm2. This would be similar to busting up tile with a hammer and chipping hammer.

It produced dust 700% over the floor clearance levels (before clean-up). After cleaning up multiple times, contractor could not get it under the clearance levels.

[Dancing Dan]

Re: Lead In Tile

What did you test tile with? XRF or swab? Just got XRF results for a job we're planning - lead all over the place, incl. the sink and toilet.

[Dean CRCNA]

Re: Lead In Tile

for 2 months I've been doing some of my on test on this subject and following some tile installers I know.

Around 30% of homes have tiles that have lead in them. This is checking mainly 1950s to 1978 homes. I'm checking these homes, because down here (Dallas) very few 1940s to 1978 homes have lead in the interior. Lead inspections don't cover ceramic tiles, so previously ... I never checked them.

A certain number of new tiles also have lead in them. My home built in the late 90's has tiles with lead. One contractor I followed actually ripped out old tile that didn't have lead in them and installed tiles that did have lead in them.

I checked where he dump the water from the tile saw and the soil was way over the clearance levels for lead content.

Dry cutting with a grinder produced the same results.

[Dean CRCNA]

Re: Lead In Tile

What did you test tile with? XRF or swab? Just got XRF results for a job we're planning - lead all over the place, incl. the sink and toilet.

Yes, I used my XRF. Mine can do lead based paint, wipes and soil.

[Dean CRCNA]

Re: Lead In Tile

Dean, I'm wary of the tub/tile lead issue too, but both generally fracture rather than powder. It would be interesting to test after a demo to see if there really is an issue or not.

Agree. See my post about the tub.

What I don't know is the size of the dust particles. Size matters :)

[Dick Seibert]

Re: Lead In Tile

Mark:

Interesting article illustrative of that the EPA Gestapo can do, dentists still use amalgam fillings, as school kits they took us through the abandoned mercury mines on the side of Mt. Diablo on filed trips that also showed fish fossils from when sea levels were 1,000 feet higher, it was fun rolling around the beads of mercury, we even broke old mercury thermometers to play with the beads of quicksilver.

[MarkMc]

Re: Lead In Tile

Mark:

Interesting article illustrative of that the EPA Gestapo can do, dentists still use amalgam fillings, as school kits they took us through the abandoned mercury mines on the side of Mt. Diablo on filed trips that also showed fish fossils from when sea levels were 1,000 feet higher, it was fun rolling around the beads of mercury, we even broke old mercury thermometers to play with the beads of quicksilver.

Yes, and under the assumption that nothing is free, we are paying a price for your trip up the slopes of Diablo to play with mercury with every post. )

BTW went out for dinner last night and had a seafood pasta pepper dish called Diablo. Guess I should either be tested or or feel reassured that all the mercury is 1k ft above sea level...

If only we were all you, with your age and exposure levels. Makes me wonder why the good folks at TEPCO are all worried about their little melting problems when we + the others dumped how many tiny bits of not to worry cause it's maybe 9k ft down [we think; sometimes] pico curries [more palatable that way] in the seas. Can't prove anyone has been harmed by that, subsequent to, why worry about doing it again? Solves lots of problems and perhaps could even be beneficial to growing larger seafood[s]. We need a peer reviewer on that huh?

I read the article more as a what not to do as DIY landlord when it's a matter a bit elevated over Victrola playing after 9 pm.

Now, what was that caused your cataract, and is it all taken care of now? I know with mine, one was most likely the result of a splinter injury in 1974 and the other almost certainly was the result of asbestos exposure in 1968 when I picked up a lump of raw when traversing through Maine.

Now back to lead, tile.... and cumulative exposure.

[Dick Seibert]

Re: Lead In Tile

Mark:

I don't think my cataract was caused by chemical exposure in Maine, the last time I was there was 1945 and they weren't sealing up their buildings yet with toxic substances. My bet is that it was caused by exposure to the chemicals in the homes I've gone into as an expert when they've pumped toxic caulking around windows and then sprayed toxic foams around them, although their caulking tubes and foam cans clearly state our Prop 65 warning "Known by the State of California to contain toxic chemicals. This stuff is much more deadly than lead.

[MarkMc]

Re: Lead In Tile

... although their caulking tubes and foam cans clearly state our Prop 65 warning

Well darn those regulators... and the moral-less free marketers of poissons poisons [clientesque] too then!

[Dick Seibert]

Re: Lead In Tile

But Mark, we old contractors that built the homes with lead bathtubs, paint, and tile didn't have Prop 65 warnings to inform us that we were installing toxic products, maybe the educational system hasn't taught the current crop of contractors to read? If they can't read maybe we should start equipping our caulking tubes with voice encryption to broadcast alerts to the contractors' iPhones? They certainly know how to listen to them, or maybe text messages would be better?

[MarkMc]

Re: Lead In Tile

...with voice encryption to broadcast alerts to the contractors' iPhones? They certainly know how to listen to them, or maybe text messages would be better?

Now you know the "why" for the FoxCon explosion....

As to you old timers and reading, it's all about selectivity and the turning of a buck, or cumlative exposure.....

~2000 BC Environmental problems from lead mines first documented

~400 BC Hippocrates accurately describes the symptoms of lead poisoning

~476 AD Roman Empire collapses; lead use in water pipes, cosmetics, pottery, and food suspected as major contributing factor, despite Roman knowledge of health hazards

~1500s Lead used as poison for assassinations in renaissance Europe

-1621 First lead mining in New World colonies, in Virginia

-1786 Ben Franklin deplores that nothing has been done to protect people from the "mischievous effect" of lead poisoning

-1842 Lead poisoning first identified as a disease in wild birds

~1870s First reports of incidents of lead poisoning of waterfowl at hunting sites

~1890s First documented mortality of waterfowl due to lead shot, information on lead hazard to wildlife published in scientific literature and the press

~1920s Oil companies began adding tetraethyl lead to gasoline

-1922 League of Nations bans interior lead paints

-1930 Leading scientists report lead poisoning in waterfowl to be widespread
[...]

[worthy]

Re: Lead In Tile

Thanks for the further reminders of the dangers in renovation. I hate thinking of all the lead and asbestos I absorbed in renos over the years.

Is there any way to determine if new ceramic tiles contain lead?