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  • ice and water shield as barrier for interior cedar shower

    i have a job to install an interior cedar shower. installed green board and then layed horizontal nailing strips a top the green board. i've just installed 1/2 of the walls with ice and water shield as a water proof barrier on top of the nailing strips and green board. i intend to install the cedar board an batten on top of the ice and water shield. i stopped installing the ice and water shield half water around the shower area as it appears the fumes are getting offensive. i'm wondering if i've made a bad choice for this water proofing material installed in this application. anyone out there ever completed a project with this material in a similar application? perhaps i should remove the ice and water shield and replace with just tyveck? looking for some feed back...

  • #2
    Re: ice and water shield as barrier for interior cedar shower

    Originally posted by trimedia View Post
    i i'm wondering if i've made a bad choice ...
    Yes you have. Several bad choices.

    dg

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    • #3
      Re: ice and water shield as barrier for interior cedar shower

      Interesting, I've only installed Grace's Ice & Water on roofs, and have been unaware of any fumes, in showers I install Grace's Vycor and have never noticed any fumes, but maybe Ice & Water does emit more fumes, I'd contact Grace about the fumes.

      Also, the Ice & Water (or Vycor) should go on the greenboard, the nailing strips on top of the Ice & Water to create a true rainscreen. I use Vycor behind tile in showers all the time, in this one I used a generic product called Subseal stocked by my supplier, and didn't notice any fumes. I would have no problem putting horizontal cedar on vertical strips, vertical cedar on horizontal strips would bother me because of trapping water, I think I would put vertical strips and then cross them with horizontal to get a true rainscreen. You might want to consider a Cedar breather with no strips or straps behind.

      Oh, and don't even think about putting Tyvek behind cedar, the surfactants in cedar eat right through Tyvek.
      Last edited by Dick Seibert; 07-27-2008, 01:42 PM.
      You will ask what goal the U.S. is pursuing? .... their external debt is huge, and ruining other countries is their customary method. Even ownership of the global 'printing press' is no longer helping. Nor is full control over NATO, None of that if enough for the 21st century colonizers. They don't just need to preserve the dollar as the only global currency but also to get their hands on the economic wealth of other large powers and regions. - Sergei Naryshkin

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      • #4
        Re: ice and water shield as barrier for interior cedar shower

        Dick, why use Vycor inside a shower? What system is it a part of?
        Bailer Hill Construction, Inc. - Friday Harbor, WA
        Website - Facebook

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        • #5
          Re: ice and water shield as barrier for interior cedar shower

          David:

          The waterproof membrane, it's in lieu of #30 felt or trying to hot mop the walls, I can get this flash video of that shower to work in Firefox but not IE-7, do you get it to work on IE? If you can see it in IE I must have to download new active X controls, I just installed XP SP3 and it screwed up Java, so it may be screwing up Javascript here, the alternative is I've done something wrong in Flash and Firefox is overlooking it.

          Edit: I got it working in IE7, anybody with the problem go to Tools>Manage Addons>Enable or Disable Add ons, look at the disabled add ons and enable Shockwave Flash Object.

          In Piedmont old Mr. Sanders wouldn't accept it when Bituthene first came out, insisted on marine plywood with the surface hot mopped, roofers hate to hot mop vertical surfaces, after Sanders retired La Brie took over and he accepted it. Micheal Byrne still hand applies an asphalt solution with layers of felt, feels he's getting paid to install it and isn't giving the money to Grace. I think Vycor seals nail penetrations better than asphalt roofing or emulsion on asphalt felt.
          Last edited by Dick Seibert; 07-27-2008, 03:51 PM.
          You will ask what goal the U.S. is pursuing? .... their external debt is huge, and ruining other countries is their customary method. Even ownership of the global 'printing press' is no longer helping. Nor is full control over NATO, None of that if enough for the 21st century colonizers. They don't just need to preserve the dollar as the only global currency but also to get their hands on the economic wealth of other large powers and regions. - Sergei Naryshkin

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: ice and water shield as barrier for interior cedar shower

            i am bothered by the fumes. interesting that you should not get any fumes from the SubSeal as on their web site it is described as "a rubberized adhesive asphalt is laminated to a multiple layer of reinforced polyethylene". ice and water shield is described on Grace's web site as "rubberized asphalt adhesive backed by a layer of high density cross laminated polyethylene". sound like the exact same material.... hmm, i wonder if the fumes dissapate after a nominal amount of time? i like the idea of the home slicker product... that would allow the water to run between the cross nail strips and the back of the cedar... seems like they also make a product that joins the tyvek style wrap diretly to the home slicker...



            i have just downloaded the web page for the product and here is a bullet point i discovered..."Due to its slight asphaltic odor, do not apply where the
            membrane is exposed to interior living space. Refer to
            product literature for more complete information."

            surely i'll be calling grace about that odor...anyone know more about the fumes i'm speaking of? why might the SubSeal not give such an odor?

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            • #7
              Re: ice and water shield as barrier for interior cedar shower

              I didn't buy it for that reason, my supplier only had Vycor in 6", 9" and 12" rolls, for 36" rolls he stocked the Subseal. Funny that I've never had the smell problem, In my area people are really concerned about chemical free products and oders. Hell, we've got people who want to ban hair spray and perfume around here:
              Originally posted by Rossmoor News
              Originally Posted by Rossmoor News
              GET FRAGRANCES OUT OF PUBLIC PLACES

              Let's green our community by educating people to avoid chemicals from personal hair products, soaps, perfumes and detergents. All we need are air, water and soil and people would rejoice.

              People like Sibyl Anderson (June 4 Residents Forum) wrote about her inability to go to functions because of scented hair products. I cannot open a window because of toxic dryer sheets and detergents. I have lived in Rossmoor for 10 years and as yet have not survived a community function without experiencing severe health symptoms.

              Fragrance-free products are available from Trader Joe's and health food stores. If we did not use chemicals like alpha-terpineol, benzyl acetate, benzyl alcohol, camphor, chloroform, ethyl acetate, limonene, linalool, pentane in dryer sheets or P-dichlorobenzene 1,4-Dioxane 1,4-dioxane PEG, polyethylene, polyethylene glycol, polyoxyethylene, sodium laureth sulfate or oxynol, Polysorbate 60 2-bromo-2-nitropropane-1 in personal-care products, we would all be healthier, including the people using them.

              How can we start a greening of Rossmoor and remove one chemical at a time from the air we are sharing? How do we get to green our community and start a movement to coax fragrances out of public places?

              Daliya Robson

              Golden Rain Road
              You will ask what goal the U.S. is pursuing? .... their external debt is huge, and ruining other countries is their customary method. Even ownership of the global 'printing press' is no longer helping. Nor is full control over NATO, None of that if enough for the 21st century colonizers. They don't just need to preserve the dollar as the only global currency but also to get their hands on the economic wealth of other large powers and regions. - Sergei Naryshkin

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: ice and water shield as barrier for interior cedar shower

                put me in the same catagory. don't want the odors and surely not a product that will cause harm over the long term. very curious how this will turn out...perhaps the curing process the two companies use are different...?

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                • #9
                  Re: ice and water shield as barrier for interior cedar shower

                  suggestions?

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                  • #10
                    Re: ice and water shield as barrier for interior cedar shower

                    http://www.na.graceconstruction.com/...04%20_q__2.pdf
                    I find ice and water noxious, certainly the msds doesn't paint a pretty picture, I wouldn't install it inside.

                    the Vycor is much different. http://www.na.graceconstruction.com/...%20M-85766.pdf

                    sub seal seems less noxious, but I haven't used it http://www.mfmbp.com/pdf/msds/MSDS-SA.pdf

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: ice and water shield as barrier for interior cedar shower

                      NewLeaf (A New Leaf is my favorite movie, is that where you got the name?):

                      I had no idea there was that much difference between Ice & Water and Vycor, the product came out as Bituthene and I always wondered why they kept changing the name and what the differences were.
                      You will ask what goal the U.S. is pursuing? .... their external debt is huge, and ruining other countries is their customary method. Even ownership of the global 'printing press' is no longer helping. Nor is full control over NATO, None of that if enough for the 21st century colonizers. They don't just need to preserve the dollar as the only global currency but also to get their hands on the economic wealth of other large powers and regions. - Sergei Naryshkin

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: ice and water shield as barrier for interior cedar shower

                        interesting, when i look up the product on their web site i notice the following in their information..."Due to its slight asphaltic odor, apply Grace Vycor
                        V40 where it is not exposed to interior living
                        space."...... very similar to the ice and water shield.... the msds seems much better than ice and water...

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                        • #13
                          Re: ice and water shield as barrier for interior cedar shower

                          fwiw Grace and the like reach optimum use after the sun beats on it, softens it up and heals all the nail holes.

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                          • #14
                            Re: ice and water shield as barrier for interior cedar shower

                            perhaps i should remove the ice and water shield and replace with just tyveck?

                            Neither, just use Saran Wrap and you should be ok. Get the good stuff that clings so it's easy to wrap around the studs.

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                            • #15
                              Re: ice and water shield as barrier for interior cedar shower

                              There are several accepted ways to build a shower, even one with a somewhat unconventional cedar lining.

                              Ice and water is not one of them.

                              Tyvek? Are you serious? Do you know what Tyvek is good for? And what it is not good for?

                              Tyvek in contact with cedar? If it can get worse, it just did.

                              How many showers have you built in the past?

                              Mongo

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