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STUDIO810
12-03-2008, 08:44 AM
Anybody know of another way to dampen the sound from a pvc pipe in a wall and floor (bathroom waste pipe) other than wrapping it with insulation. Other materials? Thanks.

Total-Home
12-04-2008, 07:33 PM
Use a sheet of quiet rock over the bay with the pipe in it.

http://www.quietsolution.com/

Around here this runs about 80/ sheet. make sure to use the appropriate caulk at the edges of the joist bay.

vermarajnet
12-04-2008, 09:20 PM
I've heard of ice&water shield or quietblanket (sound deadening material used in cars) being used. It works well, but I have no idea about the long-term issues.

We spec PVC vents and fittings with no-hub to cast iron branches and stacks. Its quiet and about 1/2 $ of a complete cast job.

BeachBoy
12-04-2008, 09:58 PM
Well, replacing it with cast iron is the easiest way, if you can get to it without too much trouble....

markhoni
12-05-2008, 11:06 PM
We had a contractor that had us sheet both sides of the stud cavities with valley tin and fill the cavity with sand. I'm not saying that's what you should do, but it worked very well.

Martin Holladay
12-08-2008, 07:40 AM
Mark,
And each time someone slammed the door in that partition, a little more sand leaked out of the stud bay ....

calvert
12-08-2008, 07:22 PM
Maybe try 2" thick rockwool batts adjacent to the pipe and a layer of 1" shaftwall drywall next to that followed by the finish layer of drywall. Wherever the pipe penetrates a joist, isolate it with foam pipe wrap. Thick and dense materials will go the furthest in killing off this sound.

Otherwise you could use a high density fiberglass and a mass loaded vinyl mat but the material is significantly more expensive than the drywall and rockwool approach.

rickatoid
12-08-2008, 09:58 PM
You can buy some spray foam in a box. Spray a couple of inches around the pipe of in the cavity.

RJCarney
12-08-2008, 10:52 PM
Studio:

In my house I used sheet lead in a 2' roll supplied by my plumber. It has worked great. I would think that the 1" "core board" as we call it around here would work well if you have the room to inset it.

Core board is also referred to as shaft wall, a 1" gypsum product sold commercially in 2' x 8' lengths.

Good luck,

RJC

Dick Seibert
12-08-2008, 11:16 PM
RJ:

I've got to agree with you, when ABS became legal here for DWV I used it in a two story home, after it was complete the customers invited the wife and me over to dinner, ostensibly to show their appreciation for the house. In the middle of dinner one of the twin children excused himself, got up from the dining room dinner table, went upstairs and flused a toilet, it sounded like Niagra falls in the formal dining room. I got the message and sent some men back, tore out one side of the 5/8" sheetrock and had the plumber put cast iron between the floors. Shortly after I was building a hospital and when installing the lead-lined sheetrock (http://www.pittslittle.com/lead-lined-drywall.html) in the radiation suite I noticed the tremendous sound deadening effect, I always wondered if I had just put another layer of lead-lined sheetrock on that wall if it wouldn't have saved me a lot of time and money; however, I've read the specifications on the lead lined sheetrock and USG says nothing about sound attenuation, I've called them and they just say they've never tested it for sound deadening. That was the one and only time I've ever used plastic pipe (except for perimeter drains around the foundation on the outside of the house).

calvert
12-09-2008, 06:43 PM
Lead does work well, again because of the density, but the last few sheets I bought about 5 months ago were in the $ 12.00/sf range. The shaft wall is much cheaper and is readily available at any decent drywall supply yard. As RJ described and as I inferred in my earlier posting, the shaft-wall would be inset between the joists or studs on wood furring or perhaps 25 ga. utility angle screwed to the side of the framing.

As commodity prices have come down recently, we may see the lead price decrease in coming months as old inventory gets sold off.

charles
12-09-2008, 09:10 PM
I think I read a few months ago that there is a brand of PVC DWV pipe that is designed for sound control. I wish I could remember the name of it.

markhoni
12-09-2008, 09:12 PM
Mark,
And each time someone slammed the door in that partition, a little more sand leaked out of the stud bay ....

We told the GC we thought that would happen, but he insisted. The reason pvc and abs make so much noise is that the pipe resonates like a guitar string as the water runs down the inside of the pipe. The water spirals down the pipe and causes it to vibrate. What you hear is an amplified sound. Shorter pipe higher pitch, longer pipe lower pitch. Smaller diameter, higher pitch, larger diameter, lower pitch. I would think low expanding foam shot into the stud cavity would dampen the vibrations enough to virtually cut out the sound.

hdrider_chgo
12-12-2008, 09:45 AM
The shaft wall is much cheaper and is readily available at any decent drywall supply yard. As RJ described and as I inferred in my earlier posting, the shaft-wall would be inset between the joists or studs on wood furring or perhaps 25 ga. utility angle screwed to the side of the framing.


Wouldn't a couple of layers of standard 5/8" drywall work just as well or better than core board?? Sure, core board is not hard to get, but how is it going to be better? Seems like two separate layers would give better sound-dampening anyway.

Pete Engle
12-15-2008, 04:08 PM
Way up top, Total Home posted a link to Quiet Rock. This one might also work.

http://www.quietsolution.com/html/quietrock.html

This stuff is engineered for exactly this purpose, and it weighs no more than regular 'rock. Skip the multiple layers of 1" rock, sand, lead, etc.

bread and roses
12-16-2008, 03:23 PM
At the last JLC live I attended a sound-attenuation presentation and they went over some of these things.

The company that was doing it also had a special p-trap for dishwashers and such that was supposed to be more quiet. I don't remember the name, but they weren't the only ones who had it, so if that seems interesting, google might turn it up.

Dick Seibert
12-16-2008, 03:57 PM
Careful Aspen, you don't want to make homes too quiet, they are making planes so quiet now that the pilots can't sleep. (http://www.gadling.com/2008/12/13/quiet-plane-keeps-airbus-a380-pilots-awake/?icid=200100125x1215398219x1201008432).

BeachBoy
12-16-2008, 09:19 PM
Why not FIX THE PROBLEM? Replace the vertical run with cast iron. Quick. Easy. Guaranteed to work.

LaughingLarry
03-16-2011, 03:22 PM
Mark,
You are dead on. Most folks don't have a clue about the cause of the 'noise' being plastic resonates like a guitar string. Well presented. We bought some pipein Anaheim, CA and the guy there was the first person that could tell me why the noise in the pipe. They suggested the spray insulation foam answer. I also bought some foam PVC sheet and made a box to put around the pipe - and since it was a PVC sheet, I could bond it with the same cement. Worked great. Good luck with your project.

worthy
03-24-2011, 11:31 AM
a brand of PVC DWV pipe that is designed for sound control

Foam core PVC is said to have some sound control (www.arkema-inc.com/literature/pdf/182.pdf) properties in commercial buildings.

S.Joisey
03-24-2011, 08:30 PM
Here's a link to an article in soundproofing PVC pipe:

http://www.jlconline.com/cgi-bin/jlconline.storefront/4d8be1770da8143927170a32100a066f/UserTemplate/69?c=d05d3bf5e8e434072519433c1c5a24f9

BeachBoy
03-24-2011, 10:30 PM
Since we are all busy removing lead from houses under the EPA's RRP program, it is probably not the best idea to purposefully install lead for sound proofing purposes, even though it would be pretty much encapsulated inside the wall.

Albion
03-24-2011, 10:51 PM
Mark,
You are dead on. Most folks don't have a clue about the cause of the 'noise' being plastic resonates like a guitar string. Well presented. We bought some pipein Anaheim, CA and the guy there was the first person that could tell me why the noise in the pipe. They suggested the spray insulation foam answer. I also bought some foam PVC sheet and made a box to put around the pipe - and since it was a PVC sheet, I could bond it with the same cement. Worked great. Good luck with your project.

Do you think XPS would work as well as the PVC foam? What thickness did you use?