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Justin Thomas
04-01-2007, 01:42 PM
I am farley new to the forum and would like to buy a Ti-Bone. Unfortunately we do not have a distributor that stocks the hammer in my area. I know that the handle is a matter of personal preferance. I have searched the forum for info and have not found anything to help me make up my mind. Any Pros and Cons would be helpful. Smooth or Milled face, 14 or 15oz.,Straight or curved handle......Please help

By the way I have taken some advice from other members and ordered my Diamondback Tool Belt about 4 weeks ago. I hopefully will be getting it within the next couple of weeks and would like to round out the oufit with a new Stiletto Ti-Bone.....Thanks For Any Help

finehomes
04-01-2007, 02:05 PM
I have two with the straight handle. Bought them before the curved handle came out....about 5 years ago. I wish I had the curved one.

Sam

Justin Thomas
04-01-2007, 02:29 PM
What is it about the straight that you don't like or why do you prefer the curved..............

finehomes
04-01-2007, 02:49 PM
I just prefer the feeling of a curved handle. The straight one is just fine. I was the first guy in the area here to buy one when they came out and it was just a month or so later when they came out with the curved handle. My guys all laughed at me as they bought the new ones. I wasn't ready to spend another $200 on a hammer after I already had two.

Sam

whiskytangofoxtrot
04-01-2007, 02:55 PM
curved handle, smooth face, 15 oz.

this is free, if you're just starting, save the $100 and buy a Vaughan curved handle or equivalent. Titanium hammers are ridiculously overpriced for what they really are as far as a hammer goes.

Allen42ACJ
04-01-2007, 03:07 PM
A $200.00 hammer?Makes me think about the post asking if carpenters are well paid in the USA..
Too much if they are buying $200.00 hammers..
Kidding aside,I have never heard of them before..With the nail guns how often do you use your hammer to make it worth using that one?
I like a fiberglass 16 oz. straight claw..

finehomes
04-01-2007, 03:42 PM
Sure is nice to carry around a hammer that weighs half of what all the rest of them do. I have had lots of guys tease me about the expense....let them use mine for a couple of days and they go out and buy one. You can buy the titanium head with wood handle for under $100....I have three of them as well.


Sam

Justin Thomas
04-01-2007, 03:45 PM
If you have never heard of them then why are you posting?The question that was brought up is curved or straight handle ti-bone????? I use mine (hammer) enough to know that a framer can be more efficiant with a lighter titanium hammer, Less fatigue, less aching joints,carpol tunnel....... so on and so forth. I am all for new technologies that make us (Framers) more efficient and better at what we do with less impact on our bodies..

Justin Thomas
04-01-2007, 03:45 PM
finehomes i apologize i was referring to the previous post

Allen42ACJ
04-01-2007, 04:22 PM
I'm sorry I posted.I know no one else ever goes off the threads topic..
Criticism comes easier than Craftsmanship
(Zeuxis 400 B.C.)

Chopper
04-01-2007, 04:39 PM
Curved, Ti-Bone, 15 oz. Swing for 2 weeks, you'll never go back.

Justin Thomas
04-02-2007, 06:41 AM
Is there a difference in the milled or smooth face? I have always used smooth face hammers and seems that you would have more use for the smooth face and less chance of boogering up what ever you are hitting

Tim Uhler
04-02-2007, 09:38 AM
Justin,

I talked to Joel at Stiletto and he said he sells more curved handle by far than straight handle. I originally ordered the curved handle about 4 years ago and got the straight (lumberyard goofed) and am glad I got the straight.

Here's why, on the DB nail bags the rubber handle gets hung up just a little bit. The newer curved handle Tibones have a thicker handle and I think that the problem would be worse. With my old DBs it wasn't a problem, I just have to twist the hammer as I lift it out and its fine.

The new bags, its taking longer to break that in and sometimes its frustrating.

Which bags did you get? I had the Deluxe Framers Rig the first time and loved them, now I have the Ultimate Framers Rig and they are just a little too big and deep. If I had it to do over again I'd stick with the Deluxe.

I'll just have to wait 10 years for them to wear out so I can get a new set :-)


Now, for all the naysayers out there, according to the March/April 2007 Ski magazine (www.skinet.com), in a column entitled "Whats the Best Diet for My Joints", . . . ."Every pound of weight lost reduces joint pressure by four pounds. In other words, drop 10 pounds and you'll ease the pressure on your knees and hips by 40 pounds."

So a lighter hammer (that is easier on your elbow and shoulder) and keeping your bags light, WILL make a difference in your framing day.

One thing to keep in mind with your Tibone, it does require maintenance. I regularly use a nail puller :-), so every few months I tighten the head of my hammer. Don't use it to drive rebar pins or all thread and it'll last you a long time.

Hope that helps.

whiskytangofoxtrot
04-02-2007, 01:25 PM
Don't use it to drive rebar pins or all thread and it'll last you a long time.

So, lemme get this straight...after going out and spending between $100-$250.00 on a hammer. ON A HAMMER!

I THEN have to go out and buy ANOTHER hammer to be able to hammer something that I need to hammer but don't want to hammer with my other hammer.

Okayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, does anybody else find this scenario to be just a little freakin' silly?

Also, titanium will deform much easier than good quality steel, such as Vaughan, Hart, etc...

Allen42ACJ
04-02-2007, 01:59 PM
I thought we were not supposed to comment on that,just answer straight or curved..see post #8

Nhbuilder
04-02-2007, 05:24 PM
I have a 14 oz. with a wooden handle, I think it is the biggest peice of junk.
it has more vibration than my estwing, I like the weight but my elbow gets sure from it. So Justin if you want it send me your address and i mail it to you for free. On a better note I got my Diamondbacks over the weekend , These bags are sweet, I am thinking about ordering another set in case they go out of business.

Andrew R.
04-02-2007, 05:41 PM
Justin,



Here's why, on the DB nail bags the rubber handle gets hung up just a little bit. The newer curved handle Tibones have a thicker handle and I think that the problem would be worse. With my old DBs it wasn't a problem, I just have to twist the hammer as I lift it out and its fine.

The new bags, its taking longer to break that in and sometimes its frustrating.

Which bags did you get? I had the Deluxe Framers Rig the first time and loved them, now I have the Ultimate Framers Rig and they are just a little too big and deep. If I had it to do over again I'd stick with the Deluxe.

.

My Diamondbacks came in today, I really like them. I am using the Occidental belt because I like the pouches a little closer to the front of me than the Diamondback belt allows. Here is a pic of the 15 oz. Tibone (brand new also) with the Diamondbacks. I doubt a curved handle would work in the sleeve as Tim said. Thought I wouldn't like the sleeve but it does contain the hammer from beating against the legs or knees. I was running cornice this afternoon and had 6 different nails in the pouches and a bunch of hand tools, really worth the money!

Tim Uhler
04-02-2007, 05:48 PM
So, lemme get this straight...after going out and spending between $100-$250.00 on a hammer. ON A HAMMER!

I THEN have to go out and buy ANOTHER hammer to be able to hammer something that I need to hammer but don't want to hammer with my other hammer.

Okayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, does anybody else find this scenario to be just a little freakin' silly?

Also, titanium will deform much easier than good quality steel, such as Vaughan, Hart, etc...

Are you a full time framer? If you aren't, then consider your opinion noted. If you are, consider it noted.

Some guys love them, some guys don't. For some reason on these threads specifically about the Tibone, you guys that don't, feel the need to relentlessly put forth your opinion.

If you feel you haven't made your point, make it. But please be specific about WHY it is such a bad idea. You might first try to understand WHY so many of us like them.

FramerT
04-02-2007, 07:42 PM
Are you a full time framer? If you aren't, then consider your opinion noted. If you are, consider it noted.

Some guys love them, some guys don't. For some reason on these threads specifically about the Tibone, you guys that don't, feel the need to relentlessly put forth your opinion.

If you feel you haven't made your point, make it. But please be specific about WHY it is such a bad idea. You might first try to understand WHY so many of us like them.
Tell 'em Tim!! Must be a slow day, no DIYers to pick on.

Andrew, I have a 14oz. just like your's. You like the sleeve on the DB's? TiBones still come with both heads?

bluemoose
04-02-2007, 08:57 PM
15 oz. milled face, curved handle...but I don't have Diamondback bags, yet:)

I also have a 14 oz. wooden handled one with a smooth face, but the TBII is so much better for everyday framing...it packs a good bit more whollop with the metal handle.

I'll never understand why people have to be so vehemently against titanium hammers. If you can't justify the price, you'll surely never own one, and you can pat yourself on the back about it until you die.

But that doesn't make you any smarter or HARDCORE than the rest of us, who, by the grace of God, are fortunate enough to swing a titanium hammer.

Ti-lovin' Adam

Justin Thomas
04-02-2007, 09:16 PM
I was wondering how long it would take for Tim to chime in. I have read a lot of your posts and threads and they have certainly influenced me on the Diamondbacks and the Ti-Bone. I ordered the Deluxe framer after reading your post about the Ultimate framer having too deep of pockets. But i did get the metal buckle in the front like you suggested should be getting them soon ordered on about 4 weeks ago and they told me 4-6 weeks. Really nice people very happy with the customers service........By the way.........thanks for some back up as for the non titanium believers.

Andrew R.
04-02-2007, 09:21 PM
Tell 'em Tim!! Must be a slow day, no DIYers to pick on.

Andrew, I have a 14oz. just like your's. You like the sleeve on the DB's? TiBones still come with both heads?

I only have the checkerhead, time to get a smooth head. I doubt I would have used the TiBone without the D, backs because the hammer beat the hell out of my leg with the Oxys. I've been doing mostly trim and Hardie for the last couple months so been using a Plumb 20 oz.smooth. Maybe I was supposed to get the smooth head also and thats why I got the 75.00 show discount,,,,,I'm gonna check that now.

Edit, It comes with the mill face , the smooth is 35.00. Looks like an average price is 250.00. Anyone use the Stilleto nail pulller?

Justin Thomas
04-02-2007, 09:35 PM
I only have the checkerhead, time to get a smooth head. I doubt I would have used the TiBone without the D, backs because the hammer beat the hell out of my leg with the Oxys. I've been doing mostly trim and Hardie for the last couple months so been using a Plumb 20 oz.smooth. Maybe I was supposed to get the smooth head also and thats why I got the 75.00 show discount,,,,,I'm gonna check that now.

Edit, It comes with the mill face , the smooth is 35.00. Looks like an average price is 250.00. Anyone use the Stilleto nail pulller?

Andrew,
In the picture is that a straight handle T-Bone......Which bags did you get.

Justin

Andrew R.
04-02-2007, 09:46 PM
Andrew,
In the picture is that a straight handle T-Bone......Which bags did you get.

Justin

The bags are the Black UFOs, the hammer is the straight handle. The bags are a little long and the lower pocket doesn't need a lot of weight in it as i noticed today it was slapping my thigh. The one pouch has a good size covered area for the phone, glasses,snack etc.. I only have a half day experience with these but FramerT sent me his old set for a couple weeks and showed me the DBack light :>0

Justin Thomas
04-02-2007, 09:53 PM
Andrew were did you order your hammer from? I notice that your hammer has the black handle is that a new thing for the T-Bones.....

Andrew R.
04-02-2007, 09:59 PM
Andrew were did you order your hammer from? I notice that your hammer has the black handle is that a new thing for the T-Bones.....
It was bought at the International Builders Show at the Stilletto booth. I googled it while ago and some pictures showed the black and some were yellow. Maybe the new stuff is yellow. I think I have blended my colors well and should look very coordinated for the upcoming spring season.

Tim Uhler
04-02-2007, 10:11 PM
Andrew,

The curved handle Stiletto that my cousin uses is yellow and the handle is thinner than the newer ones. I don't think I saw the Tibone at the booth in Orlando. I think it is that burnt orange color. I don't know.

Justin,

When I bought mine, I paid $160 through our lumberyard, but that was in 2002. Since then the older hammers get passed on to the newer guys and I get the new one :-). The last one I bought was in 2005 at JLC LIVE in Portland and I think it was $190. I love pulling nails with the side of the head. Leverage is good.

Plus, we've had a couple replaced where the rubber came apart. Joel is great to work with. I have never regretted buying that hammer.

I hope you love the Diamondbacks. I have never regretted the fit, or the design. The Ultimate are just a little too deep, but its not a big deal. I do love those bags.

If you look at the August JLC cover, you can see my old framing partner Jasen wearing his brand new blue bags after a day or two. We teased him that they looked too big on him.

ddolman
04-02-2007, 10:16 PM
I think that the new color is black for the T-Bones. I got a curved handle a couple months ago and it had a pinkish brown handle. Now the lumber yard has the ones with the black handles.

whiskytangofoxtrot
04-03-2007, 08:47 AM
Are you a full time framer?

Not any more Tim, I'm semi-retired and do mostly cab/finish/stair work now. I have however, framed just about every structure you can think of,....stick framed homes, built log cabins and timberframes, commercially metal framed, built geodesic domes, blah blah blah. I've swung a framing hammer for the better part of my life, Tim.


But please be specific about WHY it is such a bad idea.

Fair enough Tim, I really haven't done that to this point and I apologize.

1) Lighter is not necessarily better in the case of a hammer. Take a spiral 20d and try to drive it into a telephone pole with either a big rock, or a big piece of stryofoam. Which one is gonna work?

2) Titanium though light, deforms much easier than hardened steel (I forget what Rockwell hardness most good steel hammers are, Rw 60 maybe?) therefore not making it the best of materials for a hammer, ESPECIALLY a framer, who may in the course of a day, have to beat only God knows what to bend to your will!

3) As far as purchasing and using a Ti hammer, GOD BLESS! But let's make sure that we're not being a little delusional in our reasoning. Losing 13ozs. out of your bags is NOT gonna "lessen fatigue, save your back, make you a better carpenter, stop carpal tunnel" or cure cancer.

4) Again, using the rock/styrofoam analogy, what is going to be easier on your arm/elbow/joints in the long run? Once you raise the hammer, gravity and swing inertia combined w/ the weight is what drives the nail. When you don't have that weight to help generate inertia, YOU have to provide that by swinging harder, which adds muscle stress.


You might first try to understand WHY so many of us like them.

I know exactly why so many of you like them, Tim. We're all the same deep down inside, we're all trying to improve our skills, elevate our quality of work, and generally have a positive effect and influence on the world.

Not to mention that we all love new toys, especially ones that we use constantly.

But, we're talking hammers here, the OP asked a specific question and I did answer him, granted I added my opinion. And that's all it is Tim, an opinion. Take it for what it's worth, it's offered freely and can be heeded or ignored.

That's what's great about this forum.

Brothers in wood, whether we agree, disagree or ignore each other.

Tim Uhler
04-03-2007, 10:20 AM
Fair enough Tim, I really haven't done that to this point and I apologize.

1) Lighter is not necessarily better in the case of a hammer. Take a spiral 20d and try to drive it into a telephone pole with either a big rock, or a big piece of stryofoam. Which one is gonna work?.

Since most framers on this forum aren't using 20ds, that is a moot point. If I was framing with 20d nails, I'd have a heavier hammer and if I was doing it enough, I'd get one of those cool multiblow pneumatic nailers. Those things are just cool.



2) Titanium though light, deforms much easier than hardened steel (I forget what Rockwell hardness most good steel hammers are, Rw 60 maybe?) therefore not making it the best of materials for a hammer, ESPECIALLY a framer, who may in the course of a day, have to beat only God knows what to bend to your will!

This doesn't apply to the Tibone because it uses a steel face.



3) As far as purchasing and using a Ti hammer, GOD BLESS! But let's make sure that we're not being a little delusional in our reasoning. Losing 13ozs. out of your bags is NOT gonna "lessen fatigue, save your back, make you a better carpenter, stop carpal tunnel" or cure cancer.!

Thanks for the hyperbole :-) First off, losing that 13oz is a starting point. The fact is that lightening the load carried all day long is a good thing. Do any research on light and ultra light hiking. Besides, the stress reduced on your joints (knees and hips) is four times that 13oz.

Because these hammers are no blow hammers, try pounding on concrete with one if you don't believe that, there is less stress to the wrist, elbow and shoulder.

And as for stopping cancer? Can you prove it doesn't help :-) just kidding.



4) Again, using the rock/styrofoam analogy, what is going to be easier on your arm/elbow/joints in the long run? Once you raise the hammer, gravity and swing inertia combined w/ the weight is what drives the nail. When you don't have that weight to help generate inertia, YOU have to provide that by swinging harder, which adds muscle stress.

Not swinging harder, swinging faster. There is less energy lost to vibration with a Titanium hammer. I know that I don't swing so hard that it hurts my arm.

If I follow your logic, instead of a titanium 15oz hammer, I should use a 32oz steel hammer? That sounds like it'll be good for the connective tissue in my arm.

The rock/styrofoam analogy is way off. That is the problem with hyperbole, when it is too extreme and the point is lost.





I know exactly why so many of you like them, Tim. We're all the same deep down inside, we're all trying to improve our skills, elevate our quality of work, and generally have a positive effect and influence on the world.

Not to mention that we all love new toys, especially ones that we use constantly.

But, we're talking hammers here, the OP asked a specific question and I did answer him, granted I added my opinion. And that's all it is Tim, an opinion. Take it for what it's worth, it's offered freely and can be heeded or ignored.

That's what's great about this forum.

Brothers in wood, whether we agree, disagree or ignore each other.

I agree. That post on the first page you made, came across pretty sarcastic. There have been quite a few of these debates here in the last 4 or 5 years and the guys who's opinions read against these hammers, come down to cost. I had the same argument until I tried it out.

I say the same thing everytime. I want to last doing what I do. I love what I do, and there aren't that many guys in life who get the satisfaction we get in the trades. Problem is, framing is hard on the body. My goal is to last, be healthy and never seriously hurt myself. The hammer is part of an overall plan to acheive that goal.

But you are right, they are kind of cool. :-)

Nhbuilder
04-03-2007, 03:59 PM
Hey Justin Let me know if you want the hammer, It looks like i wont be working on wednesday due to weather. I will drop it in the mail, i also found a curved handle to. If you dont get back to me its going to someone else.

Justin Thomas
04-03-2007, 07:55 PM
Hey Justin Let me know if you want the hammer, It looks like i wont be working on wednesday due to weather. I will drop it in the mail, i also found a curved handle to. If you dont get back to me its going to someone else.

Nhbuilder,
I tried to send you a e-mail............but i don't think you except them. I sent you a private message let me know if you get it.

Justin Thomas

Chopper
04-03-2007, 08:21 PM
Tim, will a Ti-Bone (curved or straight) work with a wormdrive saw ? Just wondering...

Tim Uhler
04-04-2007, 12:26 AM
Tim, will a Ti-Bone (curved or straight) work with a wormdrive saw ? Just wondering...

I think so. But I don't quite get it. Its 26 minutes past my bedtime :-)

whiskytangofoxtrot
04-04-2007, 12:25 PM
Since most framers on this forum aren't using 20ds, that is a moot point. If I was framing with 20d nails, I'd have a heavier hammer.

Come on Tim, it's not a "moot point". I used the exaggeration of 20d specifically to point out that sometimes you need a hammer to do more than the purpose you intended when you bought it.


This doesn't apply to the Tibone because it uses a steel face.

Even worse, now you have a connecting joint in a striking tool that is going to be more prone to separation or fracture. Striking tools should be forged in one piece bro.


First off, losing that 13oz is a starting point. The fact is that lightening the load carried all day long is a good thing. Do any research on light and ultra light hiking. Besides, the stress reduced on your joints (knees and hips) is four times that 13oz.

I can't help but wonder if those figures aren't "slanted" (pun intended:) due to ascending/descending pretty steep inclines Tim. But I tell you what, I research L/Ul hiking if you'll research the real reasons why titanium is used instead of steel in differing applications, fair enough? :)


Because these hammers are no blow hammers, try pounding on concrete with one if you don't believe that, there is less stress to the wrist, elbow and shoulder.

Are you saying that these are "dead blow" hammers that don't recoil? THAT is certainly news to me Tim. I have several "dead blow" hammers and they are filled w/ pellets and oil, but a dead blow titanium hammer sounds pretty darn cool.


And as for stopping cancer? Can you prove it doesn't help :-) just kidding.

If they did, I'd buy a ton of them and pass them out like halloween candy.


Not swinging harder, swinging faster.

Tim, that statement just plain made me laugh. These are not baseball bats or golf clubs we're swinging here. You mean to tell me that there is a noticeable difference in speed between swinging ti vs. steel?? puh-leeze bro, lol.


There is less energy lost to vibration with a Titanium hammer.

Expound on THAT please, Tim. I need to know where my hammer is losing energy from so I can stop it from leaking. Do you teach physics at night too? Cuz that one missed me by a mile bro.


I know that I don't swing so hard that it hurts my arm.

Tim, now you've totally lost me. How in the hell can you be swinging faster w/o swinging harder when YOU have to provide almost all the momentum yourself because of the lightness of the hammer? As far as the "less hurting your arm", the human mind can convince itself of many things it turns out.


If I follow your logic, instead of a titanium 15oz hammer, I should use a 32oz steel hammer? That sounds like it'll be good for the connective tissue in my arm.

Actually Tim, A good 24oz. curved wooden handle is what I would recommend (not to you bro) to someone who is getting started and trying to assemble a good set of carpentry tools. So, that actually brings our argument down to 9oz., but we're gonna disagree anyways, so what the heck :)


That post on the first page you made, came across pretty sarcastic.

Tim, that you are absolutely right about, and I apologize. I WAS tempted to say something along the lines of "needing a light hammer to carry in a purse" type of thing, but since we can't transmit humor that effectively in this medium, I thought I'd just be only slightly sarcastic.


There have been quite a few of these debates here in the last 4 or 5 years and the guys who's opinions read against these hammers, come down to cost.

I understand, but the cost is a small piece of what I'm talking about. If it's worth it to truly help you, NO tool is too expensive. What I DO want to try to convey, ESPECIALLY to newer guys who are impressionable about these types of things, is that it's not really THAT much of an advantage to spend that kind of $ when a good, solid, quality steel hammer w/ a wooden handle will provide years of not only great service, but tremendous value as well.

In closing, the biggest reason that I can think of to purchase a titanium hammer, would be that you can increase the size of the striking face considerably due to the lightness of the material (which is why they use Ti for the face of fairway woods now, bigger face and it's flexible enough to return to shape) Now THAT is a reason to consider titanium over steel in a hammer.

It may come as a surprise to you that I myself own a stiletto (I think, lol) finish hammer w/ the "shorty" curved wooden handle. I paid $60 or so for it way back when and I like it, but I knew when I bought it that I wanted a lighter hammer, only because I use a hammer so infrequently anymore.

Lucky62
04-04-2007, 05:00 PM
When I stopped framing everyday we had one air nailer , and one guy usually had control of it [ not me ] I had [ odd weight ] a 25oz. waffle faced wood handle framing hammer . I had used Estwings , Stanley [ metal handles ] , the wood handle seemed more balanced , definitely lighter . For nailing off sheathing I used a 20oz. Estwing ...........

That 25oz was from sears , and every time the handle broke ............I got a new one ..........also still have my first 20oz Vaughan..[ from 1978 ]..........and my 28oz [ wood handles ] for when I was a tough guy .



What has this got to do with the OP , nothing , would I try one of these Titanium hammers if I were framing on a daily basis again ? yes I would , and for the same reasons I went back to a wood handle ...........they're lighter , but If for any reason I didn't like it .........I'd switch back .

I always have had straight handles .

Hand nailing can be quite an aerobic work-out [ e'specially when you got the rhythm goin ], but nothing beats pulling on a trigger ........lol

Justin Thomas
04-04-2007, 06:30 PM
Come on Tim, it's not a "moot point". I used the exaggeration of 20d specifically to point out that sometimes you need a hammer to do more than the purpose you intended when you bought it.



Even worse, now you have a connecting joint in a striking tool that is going to be more prone to separation or fracture. Striking tools should be forged in one piece bro.



I can't help but wonder if those figures aren't "slanted" (pun intended:) due to ascending/descending pretty steep inclines Tim. But I tell you what, I research L/Ul hiking if you'll research the real reasons why titanium is used instead of steel in differing applications, fair enough? :)



Are you saying that these are "dead blow" hammers that don't recoil? THAT is certainly news to me Tim. I have several "dead blow" hammers and they are filled w/ pellets and oil, but a dead blow titanium hammer sounds pretty darn cool.



If they did, I'd buy a ton of them and pass them out like halloween candy.



Tim, that statement just plain made me laugh. These are not baseball bats or golf clubs we're swinging here. You mean to tell me that there is a noticeable difference in speed between swinging ti vs. steel?? puh-leeze bro, lol.



Expound on THAT please, Tim. I need to know where my hammer is losing energy from so I can stop it from leaking. Do you teach physics at night too? Cuz that one missed me by a mile bro.



Tim, now you've totally lost me. How in the hell can you be swinging faster w/o swinging harder when YOU have to provide almost all the momentum yourself because of the lightness of the hammer? As far as the "less hurting your arm", the human mind can convince itself of many things it turns out.



Actually Tim, A good 24oz. curved wooden handle is what I would recommend (not to you bro) to someone who is getting started and trying to assemble a good set of carpentry tools. So, that actually brings our argument down to 9oz., but we're gonna disagree anyways, so what the heck :)



Tim, that you are absolutely right about, and I apologize. I WAS tempted to say something along the lines of "needing a light hammer to carry in a purse" type of thing, but since we can't transmit humor that effectively in this medium, I thought I'd just be only slightly sarcastic.



I understand, but the cost is a small piece of what I'm talking about. If it's worth it to truly help you, NO tool is too expensive. What I DO want to try to convey, ESPECIALLY to newer guys who are impressionable about these types of things, is that it's not really THAT much of an advantage to spend that kind of $ when a good, solid, quality steel hammer w/ a wooden handle will provide years of not only great service, but tremendous value as well.

In closing, the biggest reason that I can think of to purchase a titanium hammer, would be that you can increase the size of the striking face considerably due to the lightness of the material (which is why they use Ti for the face of fairway woods now, bigger face and it's flexible enough to return to shape) Now THAT is a reason to consider titanium over steel in a hammer.

It may come as a surprise to you that I myself own a stiletto (I think, lol) finish hammer w/ the "shorty" curved wooden handle. I paid $60 or so for it way back when and I like it, but I knew when I bought it that I wanted a lighter hammer, only because I use a hammer so infrequently anymore.

Wow..........you must really have it out for Tim Uhler....lol. I must say that everyone is entiled to there opinion. You do realize that you are a very small percentage that doesn't think that the titanium hammers are a good thing.

In Tim's defense, i would like to say that I am not somone just starting out and someone's opinion certainly will not cause me to buy a useless tool or leave some sort of false impression on me. I've just been doing this line of work for 10 years and at 27 i do feel and show signs of getting older (every bone in my body cracks and pops when i wake up in the morning)....so for me I'm just looking for alternatives tools that could prolong my career by causing less stress on my "young soul".......

But I can see your point and agree if you don't have the capital to buy a titanium hammer than yes a $30.00 hammer will most likely do the job for you. But your bones make crack when you wake up in the morning.....lol

Andrew R.
04-04-2007, 07:21 PM
After seeing a co worker lose his front teeth from a head that flew off a broken wooden handle, no wooden hammers on framing jobs for me. There is a significant cushioned difference when striking concrete floor with the Ti bone than any other hammer I've used. The downside for me is the length of the hammer seems unnecessary.

Tim Uhler
04-04-2007, 08:50 PM
Come on Tim, it's not a "moot point". I used the exaggeration of 20d specifically to point out that sometimes you need a hammer to do more than the purpose you intended when you bought it. .

My suggestion would be to have simply said that :-) You are absolutely correct. However, that expands the discussion beyond what a hammer is used for. Since it is typically used to persuade and drive nails, that is what we are talking about. I find that the 15oz hammer doesn't "persuade" beams and walls as well as a heavier hammer. How much? Not enough for me to carry a heavier hammer. We keep a sledge on the deck at all times. In fact, we pull it out for beating the subfloor together and never put it away. So its close.




Even worse, now you have a connecting joint in a striking tool that is going to be more prone to separation or fracture. Striking tools should be forged in one piece bro..

True enough. Just because something is "more prone" doesn't mean anything by itself. Driving nails and striking a cat's claw aren't going to kill the steel face, or the steel bolt holding that head on. "More prone" doesn't automatically mean likely.




I can't help but wonder if those figures aren't "slanted" (pun intended:) due to ascending/descending pretty steep inclines Tim. But I tell you what, I research L/Ul hiking if you'll research the real reasons why titanium is used instead of steel in differing applications, fair enough? :)

The piece I quoted made no reference, and I checked again, to ascending or decending anything. This was about joint health in general.




Are you saying that these are "dead blow" hammers that don't recoil? THAT is certainly news to me Tim. I have several "dead blow" hammers and they are filled w/ pellets and oil, but a dead blow titanium hammer sounds pretty darn cool.

I'm saying that if you take this hammer and take your 24oz steel hammer and spend some timing pounding on concrete, and do it hard, you will feel NO vibration coming through your hammer. None.

Why so incredulous about that statement?




Tim, that statement just plain made me laugh. These are not baseball bats or golf clubs we're swinging here. You mean to tell me that there is a noticeable difference in speed between swinging ti vs. steel?? puh-leeze bro, lol.

Either I wasn't clear or you didn't understand. Probably me. No difference in swing speed between ti and steel. I'm saying that because the ti hammer is lighter than the avg hammer used by a framer, in your case a 24oz recommended steel hammer, the swing speed is faster with the ti. If the ti was 24oz, then the speed would be the same. Make sense? If not, let me try again.

I'm going to try to use hyperbole to illuminate my point. Could you swing a baseball bat faster, WITH 15lb weights around the end, or WITHOUT the 15lb extra weight? ie, would you require more or less muscular force to hit the ball with or without the 15lbs?

Let me try again, if I lift up my 15oz hammer, compared to a 12lb sledge, do I use more or less engery to lift the 12lb sledge? Your muscles will contract to a greater degree to lift something heavy.

If that is true in that case, why not when we are talking 9oz? x the number of times the hammer is swung.




Expound on THAT please, Tim. I need to know where my hammer is losing energy from so I can stop it from leaking. Do you teach physics at night too? Cuz that one missed me by a mile bro..

It is losing engery through the vibration. Take a rubber mallet and try to drive a nail, then try it with your steel hammer. Try doing the same with the rubber mallet but attach metal to the striking face and compare that with your steel hammer.

With the rubber, you would be able to feel that you were losing energy through the vibration.



Tim, now you've totally lost me. How in the hell can you be swinging faster w/o swinging harder when YOU have to provide almost all the momentum yourself because of the lightness of the hammer? As far as the "less hurting your arm", the human mind can convince itself of many things it turns out.

Ask a golfer. You and I both know that the difference between a 20oz hammer and a 32oz hammer in terms of the engery the user expends is greater with the heavier hammer.

If you spend a hour hand nailing subfloor with a heavier hammer, your arm would be more tired with the heavier hammer UNLESS you were used to that heavier hammer. But, the repetition of movement with the heavier weight is NOT good for your arm (or mine. Your in the plural).

We both know that framers don't use hammers as much as they did 15 or 20 years ago. So part of this whole debate isn't as important as it used to be. But none of us that use the Titanium hammers would argue that if we all were handnailing everything, guns didn't exist, we'd take the titanium hands down over a heavier steel hammer or same weight steel hammer.



In closing, the biggest reason that I can think of to purchase a titanium hammer, would be that you can increase the size of the striking face considerably due to the lightness of the material (which is why they use Ti for the face of fairway woods now, bigger face and it's flexible enough to return to shape) Now THAT is a reason to consider titanium over steel in a hammer.

Is that the ONLY reason titanium is used for drivers? It isn't. But at this point in the discussion, we aren't going to change each other's mind and I doubt you've changed anyone's mind who was on the fence at this point. You know why? Anecdotal evidence.

I appreciate your offer to research this. I have already researched this, both ways, and at this point let's be honest, it isn't going to go anywhere. But its been fun :-)

monty1
04-07-2007, 08:58 PM
Ask a golfer. You and I both know that the difference between a 20oz hammer and a 32oz hammer in terms of the engery the user expends is greater with the heavier hammer.

Is that the ONLY reason titanium is used for drivers? It isn't. But at this point in the discussion, we aren't going to change each other's mind and I doubt you've changed anyone's mind who was on the fence at this point. You know why? Anecdotal evidence.

I appreciate your offer to research this. I have already researched this, both ways, and at this point let's be honest, it isn't going to go anywhere. But its been fun :-)

Tim i think you have tried your best to explain, no need to go any further.

I golf a lot and that is the perfect analogy in this situation.

Titanium= lighter, stronger, less shock transmission, more energy, faster swing and that all equals more efficient.

I am talking about golf here but as the owner of a Ti-Bone, the same goes for hammering nails.

I still have my California Framer and a decent case of tendonitis to go with it!
If not for titanium and graphite i wouldn't golf or swing any hammer a lot.

wallmaxx
07-30-2007, 04:20 AM
Curved. I like the ax handle style.

If spending $200 breaks you - stay away. Buy a craftsmen with the unconditional guarantee. Or be better at whatever you do and make enough money that you can live a little.. I know many guys who blow $200 a month on cigs and coffee. At least this will be around for a while.

Got mine as a Father's Day gift...best hammer I ever owned. It put's the fun back into drivin' nails.

http://www.wallmaxx.com/WallMaxx_Hand_Tools.jpg

Timbersmith
07-30-2007, 01:08 PM
Back when I framed every day I would spend almost any amount of money to lighten my bags. $200 to lose a pound, no problem. Now that I'm a computer jockey I'm jealous tht framers get to carry Ti hammers and cat's paws.

One of the easiest ways to lighten the load is to get plastic speed squares and peed-line chalk boxes. Yes, they break. So what? I'd just buy 3 at a time and keep the others in my toolbox.

Unforgiven
07-31-2007, 07:48 PM
In my experience the curved, or hatchet style handle hangs up in my tool belt. I used a friends Stiletto for a few weeks, curved handle, and it was a great swining hammer. BTW, waffle face. It did take some getting used to. Then he got out of the pokey and wanted his hammer back, and I went back to my trusty steel Estwing 32oz (for rough framing only, heavy SOB). As far as the amount of force generated per swing, I did notice that I had to put less "oomph" into a swing to generate the same blow to the nail, could be attributed to the increase in speed, or the reduction in weight. Or the fact that a 32 ounce hammer is almost a mini-sledge, but all tools have their uses. For trim, my primary vocation, I have a Stanley 20oz "anti-vibe" POS with a rubber curve on the end of the hammer. I've had it for years, and can't remember why I bought it, and have no excuse for why I'm still using a tool I hate years after I put it into service. I again find the curved handle catching on my tool belt, which is exacerbated by the fact that it's rubber. Guess I'm just being cheap not replacing it.

whiskytangofoxtrot
10-30-2007, 01:28 PM
http://www.jlconline.com/cgi-bin/jlconline.storefront/47275e030017134627177f00000104d6/UserTemplate/82?c=88560b90b1b73431f79a756b64ab803b&p=1

Tim Uhler
10-30-2007, 07:27 PM
http://www.jlconline.com/cgi-bin/jlconline.storefront/47275e030017134627177f00000104d6/UserTemplate/82?c=88560b90b1b73431f79a756b64ab803b&p=1

All this time and you still couldn't let it go? Man oh man, that is something.

whiskytangofoxtrot
11-02-2007, 05:42 AM
Man oh man, that is something.

It is, innit??

I just thought of our "conversation" after reading the article on the HP nailer Tim (nice review, btw) and it just struck me as humorously ironic given our previous discussion about weight, etc...

You're a funny guy Tim, I hope all your buddies appreciate it.

mike_the_framer
11-02-2007, 06:01 AM
It is, innit??

I just thought of our "conversation" after reading the article on the HP nailer Tim (nice review, btw) and it just struck me as humorously ironic given our previous discussion about weight, etc...

You're a funny guy Tim, I hope all your buddies appreciate it.

Wow are you going to ask him for his hand in marriage jez your playing on the other side of the fence go head and admit it.

dealybob
11-03-2007, 01:32 PM
Wow are you going to ask him for his hand in marriage

Awww, jealous Mike?

That's so cute.

Tim Uhler
11-03-2007, 07:42 PM
It is, innit??

I just thought of our "conversation" after reading the article on the HP nailer Tim (nice review, btw) and it just struck me as humorously ironic given our previous discussion about weight, etc...

You're a funny guy Tim, I hope all your buddies appreciate it.

Thanks. Sometimes they do appreciate it, other times . . . .

Its funny too because we are seriously thinking of switching over the the Max High Pressure system. Totally superior to the PC, abut also quite a bit more $, 1200 for the compressor, about 500ish for the gun (coil framer), so its spendy, but I think it'd be a good move. Much higher quality than the PC.

Incidentally, I was just informed this weekend that 2 states cover part of the cost of the Ti hammer because it lowers the incidence of certain kinds of injury. Crazy insurance companies just giving away cash like that :-)

Nice to know you were thinking of me all those months later. I feel really loved.

Chris V
11-12-2007, 02:11 AM
I have the 14oz mini, smooth face, all titanium straight handle. For me, the curved handle hammer messed with the orientation of my swing when I held it low. Also when putting it away it would get hung up. The curved handles also hit the surface when in a tight spot. Milled faces are nice because they grab that nail head, however a milled titanium head will be a smooth face in a matter of weeks. Titanium is light and strong but not hard. Get a titanium handle so you never worry about replacing the broken limb. Plus with that you get an awesome nail puller on the side of the head. It provides great leverage and will remove any nail that still has a head with ease. Don't fret the money. My constant nagging aches from shoulder to elbow have been gone since the day I got mine and that is worth all the ibuprophen in the world.