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rcginc
03-17-2006, 11:43 PM
I'm curious to know what others are paying for cultured stone materials as well as what labor rates are running. We are getting ready to do a large job and are bidding out the cultured stone work. We have a quote of $7/sq ft for Cultured Stone Country Ledgestone Caramel. We have a quote right now of $10/sq ft to install it.

Thanks,
Brian

Bill Robinson
03-18-2006, 12:26 AM
I haven't a clue.

And

I would think you would know by now that this is a "how long is a piece of string" question.

Where in the universe are you?

Wow!!!

Maybe a profile or something!!

Bill R

rcginc
03-18-2006, 07:12 AM
Wow...what a nice friendly constructive reply. Did you actually read my question before replying? What is this "I would think you would know by now" crap? I don't care if you are labeled as a "moderator", that is no way to reply to someone. If you can't answer someone's question with information pertaining to the question, maybe you shouldn't answer at all. This is the exact reason new members do not ask a lot of questions because people like you reply like this. I think you need to head over to the Computer Solutions area and learn something from Joe.

And for the record, I have entered profile information before. It isn't my fault that it isn't there now.

For the others who might be interested in helping, we are in north Florida. The labor rates we are being quoted for setting stone do not change between 200 sq ft and 2000 sq ft.

Allan Edwards
03-18-2006, 07:49 AM
Because you have to lath and mud a wall (or you should) to install cultured stone, I don't think it's much less than laying real stone. I pay about $6-$8/ft.

Allan Edwards
03-18-2006, 07:52 AM
I agree with Bill that asking prices on a national forum is a little useless given different economies, techniques, labor forces, etc. I even see extremes locally based on type of homes, size of jobs, etc.

Bill Robinson
03-18-2006, 09:51 AM
You still haven't filled in your profile.

How much are you paying for a 2x4?
How does that help me?

My apologies for being insensitive and not understanding the reason behind your question.

If you would please take a moment, setting aside my rudeness, and help me to understand how you will benefit from asking and getting a civil answer to your question.

I am hoping that your explanation will help me and others in the future to avoid my lack of civility.

Humbly
bill r

Brickie
03-18-2006, 12:22 PM
Brian,

You need to give more info such as:

Residential? Commercial? New construction or repair/remodel?

Mike

rcginc
03-18-2006, 08:46 PM
To clear up any ambiguity:

1. Residential (I guess I'll update my profile to indicate any question I ask from here on out is only related to residential construction).

2. New construction (We only do new construction so another item for my profile).

3. We've been told the SIZE of the job does NOT make a difference in price of LABOR but I would imagine it would with materials. I specifically speaking of the labor charges for installation of cultured stone. Other trades do give us discounts based on size of job.

Here's my reason for asking. I go back to how I originally phrased my question...I am curious to know what others are paying around the country. I'm curious to know for many reasons. I'm curious to know because from everything I have heard from different folks who sell it (both at trade shows as well as a friend of my in a local brickyard), it is not as difficult to install as many local installers are leading people to believe. It is almost like the phrase "cultured stone" is driving the price up higher than other forms of masonry work.

I realize numerous variables are different around the country but even so, I think I asked a valid question. It was merely a question for comparison purposes. Kinda like when people talk to someone across the country when they usually ask "what's the temperature there" or "how much are you paying for gas".

As far as the price of actual stone goes, if we can wait "weeks", we can get the stone for $7/sq ft. If we need it in "days", we can get for $8/sq ft. Since there are occasions where I need to ship it in, I'd like to know if there are any "discount" stone suppliers that might offer discounted shipping. The specific stone we are looking at is the Owens Corning Country Ledgestone Caramel Cultured Stone.

Thanks,
Brian

p.s. I'll get my profile updated again.

Brickie
03-18-2006, 10:08 PM
Brian,

I haven't used the country ledgestone so I can't comment on the price. I would recommend going to their website and do a dealer search in your area. Call them and get pricing. Here in the Chicagoland & NW Indiana pricing on the same item will vary depending on the distributor/dealer.

There are so many variables that do affect labor costs. Good to hear that you have someone that will install it for the same price per square foot no matter what the size of the job.

I am not aware of the phrase "cultured stone" driving up the price than other forms of masonry. Real stone will cost more to install than manufactured stone. "Cultured Stone" is brand name. There are other manufacturers out there that do make a good manufactued stone product. Like all things, prices do vary.

Mike

rcginc
03-19-2006, 09:31 AM
Brian,

I haven't used the country ledgestone so I can't comment on the price. I would recommend going to their website and do a dealer search in your area. Call them and get pricing. Here in the Chicagoland & NW Indiana pricing on the same item will vary depending on the distributor/dealer.

There are so many variables that do affect labor costs. Good to hear that you have someone that will install it for the same price per square foot no matter what the size of the job.

I am not aware of the phrase "cultured stone" driving up the price than other forms of masonry. Real stone will cost more to install than manufactured stone. "Cultured Stone" is brand name. There are other manufacturers out there that do make a good manufactued stone product. Like all things, prices do vary.

Mike

Mike...thanks for replying. Right or wrong, subs around here consider all stone veneer as "cultured stone". Sort of like "Kleenex". It could be Owens Corning, Eldorado, Coronado or anything else. It is my understanding that the Corning product is the easiest to install but I'm not sure if that is correct or not.

Brickie
03-19-2006, 01:00 PM
Mike...thanks for replying. Right or wrong, subs around here consider all stone veneer as "cultured stone". Sort of like "Kleenex". It could be Owens Corning, Eldorado, Coronado or anything else. It is my understanding that the Corning product is the easiest to install but I'm not sure if that is correct or not.


Brian,

After reading your last post it definitely sounds like it to me that the subs in your area are feeding you, as well as others in your area, a bunch of crap.

Mike

Allan Edwards
03-19-2006, 04:12 PM
I have found cultured stone (or imitation stone) almost as expensive as real stone. Especially when you have to lath and scratch coat for it. I also think you should always provide a "brick ledge" for it, at least 1-1/2".

The advantage over real stone is availabilty, weight, and the fact that you can choose a color/blend from a catalogue and know that the finish product will be exactly what's shown. You can't say that with real stone. And there are just tons (excuse the pun) of choices.

Having said that, I think imitation stone only works up to a certain price point, above that people expect real stone. I have a large house I'm starting (12,000 sq ft) that is stone, it would be suicide to use imitation stone.

Stuccoman
03-19-2006, 05:33 PM
And with lathing and scratching it I think it needs two layers of moisture barrier just like stucco. Most of the instructions for installation I have read called for 3.4 lath not 2.5

rcginc
03-19-2006, 06:13 PM
I have found cultured stone (or imitation stone) almost as expensive as real stone. Especially when you have to lath and scratch coat for it. I also think you should always provide a "brick ledge" for it, at least 1-1/2".

The advantage over real stone is availabilty, weight, and the fact that you can choose a color/blend from a catalogue and know that the finish product will be exactly what's shown. You can't say that with real stone. And there are just tons (excuse the pun) of choices.

Having said that, I think imitation stone only works up to a certain price point, above that people expect real stone. I have a large house I'm starting (12,000 sq ft) that is stone, it would be suicide to use imitation stone.

Allan...around here, more and more customers are starting to want the "faux" stone after watching HGTV, DIY, and shows like that. Most of the homes here are below 3500. I'd say less than 5% of the homes built in 2005 were between 4000 and 10000 sq ft.

With that said, the project I'm currently working on is a craftsman style with a stone veneer around the perimeter about 4' high and then hardie board above that. The stone is then being used on the inside around the gas fireplace, a few columns in the great room and the hood in the kitchen to tie it all together.

Brian

Brickie
03-19-2006, 06:28 PM
I have found cultured stone (or imitation stone) almost as expensive as real stone. Especially when you have to lath and scratch coat for it. I also think you should always provide a "brick ledge" for it, at least 1-1/2".

The advantage over real stone is availabilty, weight, and the fact that you can choose a color/blend from a catalogue and know that the finish product will be exactly what's shown. You can't say that with real stone. And there are just tons (excuse the pun) of choices.

Having said that, I think imitation stone only works up to a certain price point, above that people expect real stone. I have a large house I'm starting (12,000 sq ft) that is stone, it would be suicide to use imitation stone.



Allen,


There are companies out there that sell NTV-Natural Thin Veneer. It's real stone. You apply it just like the imitation stone.

Mike

Bill Robinson
03-19-2006, 07:13 PM
There are a couple of articles in past JLC's you might find helpful.

Feature Article - December 2004
Manufactured-Stone Nightmares
A remediation contractor explains how improperly installed synthetic-stone veneer can cause severe rot damage in the wood framing underneath.

Feature Article - April 1999
Working With Manufactured Stone
As a veneer on exterior walls or masonry chimneys, manmade stone looks like the real thing, but without the weight and the cost.

Bill R

Allan Edwards
03-19-2006, 07:46 PM
Allen,


There are companies out there that sell NTV-Natural Thin Veneer. It's real stone. You apply it just like the imitation stone.

Mike

I am currently building a house using some thin veneer, but it's just as accent pieces. The exterior has a 48" wainscot of brick, stucco above. I am using thin veneer in niches and accent pieces around windows. I don't see the point of using thin veneers on walls in place of full thickness stone. You don't save much if any money.

Brickie
03-19-2006, 09:45 PM
I am currently building a house using some thin veneer, but it's just as accent pieces. The exterior has a 48" wainscot of brick, stucco above. I am using thin veneer in niches and accent pieces around windows. I don't see the point of using thin veneers on walls in place of full thickness stone. You don't save much if any money.


Allan,

In my previous post I was referring to using the NTV instead of the manufactured stone. NTV is REAL stone that is cut to the same thicknesses as manufactured (Fake) stone. When you hold a piece of the NTV in one hand and a piece of manufactured stone stone (from any manufacturer) in your other hand, you will find a very noticeable difference.

Having said all that, as a contractor, I prefer the full thickness stone veneer over thin veneer stuff (doen't matter if it's real or fake stone) for a very good reason. I make more money on full veneer than on the thin :)


Mike

rcginc
03-20-2006, 09:42 PM
So I found a source today for Owens Cultured Stone for $5.75/sq ft and depending on our future commitments, that will go lower. They are considered to be a "master distributor" and are willing to work with us. That's a minimum of $1.25/sq ft lower than local sources.

We did get into a discussion about labor prices. Jacksonville and Orlando are getting between 9 and 16/sq ft. According to the local brickyard reps, Atlanta, by comparison, is getting 4-5/sq ft for residential construction.

shavershop
03-22-2006, 08:31 PM
Hi Brian, I wish more people would ask about pricing in their area. I'd like to know what it cost to do work in all parts of the country. Then I will know where to move to make the most money. From what I have seen and heard the best money to be made is where you have the least amount of illegals. We don't have them standing around the front of the Home Depot yet so I guess the wages around here are still pretty high. I know for a fact that the Russinans and the Mexicans are really driving down the wages in the Seattle and Tacoma areas. First we ship all the manufacturing jobs overseas and leave nothing but service jobs here. Now all the service jobs are being taken by illegals. Hey it's a free country ( open borders) and we have to support free trade (competing with the third world). You got to love it.