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matt1984
02-14-2006, 08:20 PM
i have a question that many of you might think is stupid, i am an apprentice so here it goes... theres 3 ways of laying out for 16 oc studs ive heard of, they are : pulling 15 1/4 from the end and then 16s the rest of the way. Another way i heard and have seen was pulling all 16s and centering the stud on every 16" mark. The last i know is just pulling every stud at 16" and the X to the right (up the tape)....can someone explain each of these different ways to me and which one is the best?
Also, does it matter if your sheathing/sheetrock is getting railroaded?

Thanks
Matt

dgeorge
02-14-2006, 08:38 PM
I am not sure if there is a so called right way, as long as you do it consistantly. I personally hook my tape on the end of the plate and mark 15 1/4", then 16 3/4", then 31 1/4, then 32 3/4, and so on. I always put an "X" between the two marks so it is idiot proof for my "nailers". I was tought to layout all doors and window openings befor I laid out the studs.

alainbagagem
02-14-2006, 08:52 PM
i look at my roof layout first, then layout.

ckelsoe
02-14-2006, 09:23 PM
I just mark 3/4 short from the stud mark on the tape. That is simple and always works no matter what stud width I use (16" or 24").

DinoGar
02-14-2006, 09:50 PM
I;m with Alain and also once you get into reading the cartoons better you should check the shear schedule for shear walls, min sheet width , nailing, transfer, allo sort of stuff, My crew all layout the same way, when i let em, but I pull 15-1/4 or burn whatever your adjacent wall width is say 3.1/2 and go with it until a window or door, layout to middle of wall section , most likely a window or door, then pull from the other end of the wall to same window or door, this will give you full 48 inch shheet for shear, and also when you get to window, we just run full sheets then router, therefore tying the xt and header, less spoils and clean this way, instead of piecing in pieces, that's scabby

DinoGar
02-14-2006, 10:11 PM
Hey matt your boss should hold your hand for 10 minuts and run this over with you, if he letting you layout with these questions hes in trouble, fisrt day on any house I set the rules for everything, including layout who and what, one guy starts layout same guy finish, errors and this crew minimal, because of that one reason, 99 percent FU's come from layout. If you not 100percnet confident dont even shatrpen your pencil,

framer
02-15-2006, 12:37 AM
first determine which side of house the layout will start. try to stack everything. then pull your tape and go 3/4" back on every 16" mark, until your tape runs out. then just go every 16" from there after.

Jason Y.
02-15-2006, 03:41 AM
You really only need to pull your tape out for window/door openings. For stud layout I use a layout stick. www.bestconstructiontools.com/layoutsticks.html

bkerley
02-15-2006, 09:40 AM
i look at my roof layout first, then layout.

Correct, but you must also look at the floor framing unless you are on a slab. There are more than three ways of achieving a successful layout. The easiest way to learn this is going to be through an actual demonstration. The goal of the layout is to create an alignment between the sheathing and the studs for nailing purposes. If you are laying out a "long plate" (a long plate is the plate set that extends beyond the adjoining plate to create a corner) then you attach your tape measure to the end of the plate, locate the O.C. measurements you intend to layout (most commonly 16" red boxes on the tape) and mark your x at the box and back up 3/4" to mark the line. If you are laying out a "short plate", (this is the plate that abuts the "long plate" but does not extend to the edge of the foundation) extend your tape beyond the end of the plate by the equivalent measurement of the plate it is joining and mark your layout the same as you otherwise would. A shortcut for this is to place a block of plate material at the end of your short plate and hook your tape over the block. This will make it easier to maintain consistency throughout the length of the plate. There are many other variations and refinements in layout that you will need to learn. Observe the folks you work with and ask questions. If you are working with a good crew, they will share their knowledge with you. Also, you could get a few books on the subject. We use "Modern Carpentry" for the basics and build on information from there. Make sure you learn how to use your framing square properly.

kwoodhands
02-15-2006, 10:33 AM
Simplest way for me is to mark 16 3/4" place the X to the left. Same thing with 32. 48 etc. Two foot centers 24 3/4" X to the left etc.This way you hook the tape,mark.
mike

matt1984
02-15-2006, 04:30 PM
what i have been doing all along is pulling 16" and marking the X to the right and then 32" and the X to the right and so on and so fourth. is doing this all right and will all ends of sheets (4'-0") wide land half on a stud? also no one answered my question, does using this method matter if your railroading or hanging sheets vertically. I rarely do wood framing, mostly i do all metal framing, does this make a difference or is it the same for both? sorry if i sound redundant.
Matt

Garbanzo
02-15-2006, 05:51 PM
Matt, your third way will put the stud edge at 48", not on center. You need the stud to begin at 47 1/4 and end at 48 3/4 to put 48" on center, in order to have nailer for the edges of both sheets of sheathing. I think it's easiest to make your marks 3/4" short of the red mark on your tape throughout the layout. Make a mark there and place the x ahead. Then go back and fill it in using your speed square. Ex. 15 1/4 is an edge, mark it, then make the x. Now 16 is center, 16 3/4 is other edge. The next one would be 31 1/4 = edge --mark it then make another x, now 32 = c, 32 3/4 = other edge. Etc.

kpatrix
02-15-2006, 07:00 PM
i use the 3/4 before method (15 1/4x,31 3/4x,47 1/4x) and always layout with a tape. i have learned not to use a framing square or anything else because 1/16 of an inch x 32 = 2 inches and the plywood never breaks correctly. the only thing i use a framing square for is stair stringers, but i mark my diagonals first and use the framing square to connect the points.

matt1984
02-15-2006, 08:01 PM
seems and sounds like 15 1/4, 31 1/4, 47 1/4 with the X to the right and so on is the easiest way to go then.. i work with an old timer and he says to just pull 16s and put the X to the right. But you guys differ so im not so sure on what to do.
matt

dgeorge
02-15-2006, 09:01 PM
Matt
Don't forget to allow for the corners when you but a wall into a wall that is in place so you don't mess up your sheeting on the outside.

Tim Uhler
02-15-2006, 09:24 PM
i use the 3/4 before method (15 1/4x,31 3/4x,47 1/4x) and always layout with a tape. i have learned not to use a framing square or anything else because 1/16 of an inch x 32 = 2 inches and the plywood never breaks correctly. the only thing i use a framing square for is stair stringers, but i mark my diagonals first and use the framing square to connect the points.

I started laying out stairs that way last summer and will never go back :-)

Also use a layoutstick with great success. What I do though is cut my plates on a stud and then layout back from that split. So it corrects every 16' or so.

We either get 16' material or 20' material. I cut the plates right on 16' or 20' and then if it's a long wall, I start layout from each 16' or 20' working back instead of from one corner all the way through. That way we never have problems with sheathing breaking on studs.

Tim Uhler
02-15-2006, 09:44 PM
seems and sounds like 15 1/4, 31 1/4, 47 1/4 with the X to the right and so on is the easiest way to go then.. i work with an old timer and he says to just pull 16s and put the X to the right. But you guys differ so im not so sure on what to do.
matt

Matt,

The only time I put "x's" at all is if the studs would cover a center mark, ie we are toenailing garage studs.

For walls I just pull from the outside 16, 32 48.. . Those are center marks and I don't have to worry about anything. The first sheet will cover the end stud completely and split the 48". For the wall that butts this one, I "burn" 5 1/2" (for 2x6 wall) and then mark 16, 32, 48 etc.

This picture (http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/8885471/129578993.jpg) is large so when you resize it, it'll zoom in. This wall I burned 5 1/2" so the end sheet will lap the wall that is already standing. When you resize you can see the center marks. I just find that it makes things easy for us and the framer who I learned under used center marks so it stuck.

AZ Contractor
02-16-2006, 01:13 AM
Simplest way for me is to mark 16 3/4" place the X to the left. Same thing with 32. 48 etc. Two foot centers 24 3/4" X to the left etc.This way you hook the tape,mark.
mike

Only when you are pulling your tape from the left. Let's not forget to mention that to an apprentice.

Joe Carola
02-16-2006, 09:37 AM
Matt,

I start out with 15-1/4" and then 31-1/4" --- 47-1/4" and so on. It's just a matter of getting comfortable with deducting the 3/4" for some people. There have been some guys over the years that just don't get it and still want to mark the 15-1/4” first and then hook their tape on that mark and pull 16".

I don't mark X’s on my plates. I have all three plates lying down and then I square the vertical line and just scribe an angled line up and it marks all three plates. Some guys I see will scribe an X on all three plates which is fine but to me unnecessary on the third plate anyway.

I will lay out my front and back walls and then snap a line on the top plates across the whole house from front to back and that will mark every single wall top plate and give a straight line. You don't have to take out your tape for all interior partitions for the studs. I will do the same thing on the side walls also.

Here's a sketch of what my plates look like from the side view with my square vertical line and my angled line marking which side the stud goes on.

TSJHD1
02-16-2006, 01:58 PM
Only when you are pulling your tape from the left. Let's not forget to mention that to an apprentice.

Agree with that. I think "set ahead/forward or set back" is better terminology.

Tom

woodbutcher
02-16-2006, 04:12 PM
I mark my plates similar to Joe . and we read it as set ahead or set back


Tom

matt1984
02-16-2006, 04:21 PM
thanks,im comortable with deducting 3/4 from each 16, thanks guys, i aprreciate the help.
Matt

matt1984
02-18-2006, 09:44 PM
with laying out from 16 to 32 and so on and marking an X after every 16, will 4' (if running boards vertically) and 8' (if running horizontally) land halfway on a stud? my partner tells me to layout this way. i questioned him about it and he just told me to do it his way.
matt

AZ Contractor
02-18-2006, 10:41 PM
Do the math. If you are putting a mark at 48" and an x between 48" and 49 1/2", your 48" sheet will miss the stud.

JonPatrick
02-19-2006, 09:52 AM
Mat- I think you asked about "railroading" your joints? I'm guessing that you have a Commercial backrownd?
For the deck,the walls,roof,and sheetrock,I allways start a run with a full sheet. Then the next run with a 1/2 sheet,all starting from the same side your layout is from. This all running horizontally.
I hope it helps.

Garbanzo
02-19-2006, 11:50 AM
If you did your layout on center accurately, it wouldn't matter whether you sheathed it vertically or horizontally, everything would land on 1/2 stud. Going horizontally, assuming you start from where you began the layout, a half sheet will land on 48" and the full sheet below (or above), would land on 96", then using full panels from that point, all your seams would be staggered by 4'. You will have a panel's vertical edge only on every 4' spacing. 16" and 32" spacings (and their multiples) will be where you are nailing a panel's field and horizontal edge, no vertical edges would land on these studs.

Also, the layout on the exterior walls is to make the sheathing process easier. The sheetrock will need to be cut on the interior side of these same walls, too bad for the drywall guy, rock is easier to cut.

davedd
02-19-2006, 06:50 PM
KP

I have always checked my stringers by checking the diags real quik after layout to see if I have slipped or read a number wrong. I am going to layout the diags first now. It should make things better when the stair has to fit perfectly from beam to beam.

Matt,

15 1/4 and go is the way I do it. I have heard of guys laying out with a center mark for each stud but I woudn't do it like that. It seems a little rough.

If you layout 16 and go the first stud will only be covered halfway by the sheathing or sheathing is getting cut.

Steve M
02-20-2006, 07:57 AM
Matt,
Your first mark should be at 15 1/4" then 16's after that. This will make your sheets land half on the studs. I usually place a roofing nail at 15 1/4" and hook my tape on that. It won't matter if you run your sheets horizontally or vertically since 8' and 4' are divisible by 16".
Cut all your plates first and tack each bottom plate to the top plate (this makes sure all your layout marks are aligned later). With all you plates in place you can then see how to begin your layout on each wall (taking into account all other necessary factors).
I also use a colored crayon and label each set "A", "B", etc. with an accompanying arrow so the plates don't get spun around. PLace an identical mark on the floor location.
I'm curious who is running the show and why they would have someone untried doing the layout. It could get expensive later on.

Joe Carola
02-20-2006, 08:24 AM
Matt,

If you follow the 15-1/4" mark and then 31-1/4" mark and 47-1/4" mark using a 1-1/2 stud that will put your 48" and 96" in the center of the stud starting off the corner.

I revised my first drawing.

Blocklayer
02-20-2006, 06:35 PM
Is the centres and spacings calculator at http://www.blocklayer.com/WoodCalcEng.aspx of any use in this?

matt1984
02-20-2006, 09:00 PM
makes sense to me now. still dont get why he marks everything exactally 16 and x to the right because a full 4 or 8 foot sheet wont land on it. stubborn old man...