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TR Construction
08-09-2004, 10:15 PM
I'm a remodeler. A customer of mine (who I'm too busy to work for right now) drywalled his own living room. He ran the drywall horizontally on the walls, then asked me if he had done it right. I told him my 'preference' on the walls is to run it vertically (as long as the framing is accurate), and avoid the 'butt' seams. He's got a spackler coming in who told him anyone who runs it vertically is a 'hack', he says the joints will crack. Funny, I can take this guy to jobs I've done 15 years ago, and am willing to let him 'watch and wait' til it cracks. Am I missing something? P.S. I'm only talking about walls, not ceilings.

Swan LS
08-10-2004, 08:59 AM
You might look at drywall hanging and taping by Myron R. Ferguson. He does a good job of explaning methods of hanging drywall. You should not have a problem with what you did. Swan

Drywaller
08-10-2004, 04:19 PM
The problem with running the drywall vertically is,As the studs dry they will sometimes twist and buckle.If a seam lands on one of those studs the joint will give you problems.
In commercial drywall applications,it is the norm to run all drywall vertical as you are always using metal studs that do not warp.I will sometimes take that chance on a very long wall(to stand up all sheets)if wall is longer than 16 feet to dismiss butt joints.

james johnson
08-10-2004, 09:34 PM
even on a 32 foot wall i would rather tape one seam at 4' with a 8' butt at 16' than 8 verticle seams 8' long. ( 40' of seams vs 64' of seams )

james

SteveH
08-11-2004, 04:59 PM
That finisher is right..never run them vertically. His seams will never be straight and they in time will probably crack or ridge because the stud will shrink. Vertically is the not the right way to do it. If one board is not even with the other in most times that's the case on vertical installation..that finisher will have a tough time doing those seams. I'd probably walk off the job and let someone else do it or ask about 30% more.

jakaman
08-11-2004, 05:30 PM
Steves right, tell him to finish it himself and 30% more only if you don't have to gaurantee it. The science of hanging sheetrock has evolved to where it is today because of cracking. The thing that I can't figure out is why would a guy take on a project and not know how to do it and then expect good results. Drywall must bring that out in people, I've never sat around my house and thought "I think i'll go outside and paint my car!" I'm sure of one thing though, if that guy was a CPA and you brought in your accounting problems that you tried to do yourself, he would ream you a new ass for 'TRYING' to do 'HIS' job, then charge you triple to prove how important he was. Its up to you if your the dumb ole fix it guy or the professional contractor how you handle this one.

TR Construction
08-11-2004, 07:10 PM
I appreciate all your anwers, even the last few guys with the heavy chips on their shoulders (my condolences). You last two might want to settle down a little and re-read from the beginning. Anyway, all 'personal' issues aside, the customer hasn't done anything wrong, he just got himself a little worried about the spackling issue. Actually, he did a nice job, I don't think I'll convince him it's 'rocket science' at this point. And although I always am willing to listen to other points of view, I'll stand by the fact that I've been in business 25 years, have always done my own drywall, most of the time vertical, and have never, ever had a single callback for cracks in the seams. Most of my customers are lifelong and I'm always back to do more work and have never seen a problem with the 'old'. I will say that I'm drywalling over my own framing, so admittedly I'm not running into the same problems as some of those stated above. If I drywall over someone else's framing, and it's 'off', I do run horizontally. I also do believe that there's no doubt it's easier to run it horizontal, and that may 'skew' a few opinions. So until when and if I ever have such a problem as several of you are stating does 'exist', I think I'll stick to my methods for now, and maybe reconsider in another 25 years. P.S. If there was any single point that would ever make me change my mind, it would be James Johnson's. Thanks.

SteveH
08-11-2004, 07:59 PM
TR,

Us two are not with a chip on our shoulders at all, just stating that the proper way to hang rock on wood is horizontal. here are some reasons and then refer yourself to the USG Gypsum Construction Handbook which is online at www.usg.com

- The strength of the sheetrock is on the long.
- Anything affixed perpendicular to another is stronger than in parallel.
- Because the studs are 1 1/2" wide and hardly ever straight you just don't have enough room to secure each board..that's because each screw or nail should be at least 1/2" off the edge. Same with wood, screw or nail at the edge of the wood and the wood will chip. There is no holding power there.
- Horizontal application results in a straighter wall especially when using drywall glue.
- In vertical application when one stud is not 100% inline with the other the boards will go "in and out".
- Difficult to use adequate drywall glue on verticals cause it will ooze out..just more work.
- The tapered edge on vertical is less than on horizontal because the stud is not perfectly square thus one board will be higher than the other.

Now you may frame perfectlly straight, but remember studs shrink on their width not on the r length due to the tree "O rings". In vertical applications, the boards must be tight next to each other to allow the enough room for the screws/nails. When the board is tight and since new studs contain about 19% moisture that means that that stud will shrink 19% and if the boards are tight you will have a ridge or crack..it's inevitable.

Maybe your from an area where they texture and just maybe after all that time no one has called you back. I have yet to see anyone being able to have a perfect flat seam on vertical boards attached to wood..it's impossible unless those studs are PERFECTLY straight and that is almost never.

TR Construction
08-12-2004, 06:00 AM
SteveH,

First of all, after re-reading, I realize my 'chip' comment should have been directed more at 'Jakaman'. Second of all, after thinking about it more and 'unskewing' James Johnson's math, I realized the 'true' numbers are 40' versus 56' (not 64'). The only reason I wrote in the original question is I had never heard of such a thing (as stated, I've never had a problem, and no, no one is coming behind me and texturing. I do all the work, foundation to finish, except the excavation, the HVAC, and the carpeting. I'm talking about additions only, not houses). When they call me back, it's to remodel another section of the house, so I'm always around my previous work. I agree with you about the 'perpendicular' stength of the drywall, but feel it's only an issue on ceilings (drywall isn't installed to 'strengthen anything, it just needs to hold itself), not on walls. As far as the 'straightness' of the studs, it sounds like most of you guys are following production framing (by others), whereas I'm following custom framing by myself. And although you're partially correct about the wood being installed at 19%, once it 'evens' out it's moisture content is around 11 or 12% (it doesn't shrink 19%, it shrinks about 7%). That's why we 'paper-tape', to provide some slight flexibility.
P.S. If I were ever to start doing drywall only, I'm sure I too, would run them horizontally, as I would be following others framing, but in the meantime, I guess I'm achieving the 'impossible', because my vertical seems don't crack.

Mike Rooney
08-12-2004, 08:39 AM
I just finished a basement job - 20ga. studs, stand-up board. The ONLY reason I did it this way was because we could only get 8' down the stairs, and if I had it to do over again, I probably would lay 'em down.
It is a lot faster to hang as well as finish horizontal.
There is NO such thing as a perfectly flat joint, whether tapered or butt.

TR Construction
08-12-2004, 11:04 AM
Mike,

I don't doubt that it is faster, and don't dispute anyone who prefers the horizontal method, just saying it's not the 'only way'. Your input is much appreciated and your point well taken, but I made no claim of a perfectly flat joint.

SteveH,

By the way, now that I think about it the shrinkage rate isn't even 7%, that's just the moisture loss rate. I don't know the number off the top of my head, but would venture to say the shrinkage rate is about 3 or 4%, 5% tops. If the wood were to shrink 19%, your 2 X 4's would measure about 1 1/4" X 2 3/4" about a year later. Think about it.

jakaman
08-12-2004, 06:07 PM
TR,
CHIP! I re-read my post three times and don't see the chip. I made note that there was a right way and a wrong way. There wasn't anything personal directed towards you, so I don't know who your defending. If it was the homeowner, I don't know why. I thought this conversation was between us and we could express our views about being tradesmen. I like the line. "He hung the drywall and 'then' asked me if he did it right" Now thats confidence! Then hes afraid he might have done it wrong? The whole time he was screwing the drywall on, it never occured to him that he didn't know what he was doing and and then some guy told him he did it wrong and 'NOW' he's gonna worry! I do drywall and plaster work, thats 'ALL' I do. I'm not a pro at every trade in the book. And even now when someone tells me a better way, I'm willing to change. Why would I continue to do it a less better way for the next 30 years just because thats how I've been doing it. Thats why we tune into these sites, to get input and grow. The bottom line is, as a professional tradesman, I don't care about some cheap homeowner who wants to save a buck and then has the nerve to think some professional will come in and bail him out because 'now' he's worried that he might have screwed up his largest investment. Just the mention of guys like this piss me off, let him look to Bob Vila for answers......... Now thats a chip! :-)

TR Construction
08-12-2004, 07:18 PM
Jakaman,

When referring to the 'chip', I meant getting mad at someone trying to do their own work. I just don't see any sense in getting mad about it, this IS America. When he asked me if he did something wrong, he meant in reference to 'spackling'. He never planned on doing the spackle to begin with, he knew it was out of his league, He didn't do the drywall himself just to save money, he did it because I was too busy and I'm his regular 'go-to' guy. That's why I was saying I don't think you understood my original post. You've mentioned several times that he's calling someone in to 'bail him out', and that's just not the case. He figured he could handle phase I, but would call a professional for phase II. And though I appreciate you sticking up for me, there was no problem to begin with. And no one is doubting your experience or professionalism. I wasn't trying to brag I'm some kind of pro at everything, I was trying to make the point that when one has to 'follow' oneself, the work tends to be more conscientous. In other words, the framers would do a much nicer job if they had to drywall also. And I'll keep in mind your comments about 'changing', I'm sure we all tend to get 'locked in' to certain methods after a while, including myself. It's just that to make a change, I either have to be having a problem with the existing method, or see the 'option' as a clear-cut better method. I'm just not having the problems you guys are talking about. And though I appreciate that you think your way is the 'only' way, I don't see this situation as so 'black and white'.

james johnson
08-13-2004, 08:14 PM
TR,

How was my math skewed? 32 foot long wall 8 feet high.... if I hung 16'boards across the studs that would give me one 32 foot seam with one 8' butt (32 + 8 = 40) that would be 40 lineal feet of seam to tape, one nice long seam at waist height and one vertical butt joint that I could use any number of methods to make disappear. If I hung the same room with the rock going vert I would have 64 lf of seam (32 / 4 = 8 x 8 feet high = 64 lineal feet) now in all fairness to your math I am counting the two corners in my vert ct, so a more realistic count would be 56lf vs. 64 lf or 40 lf vs. 48 (slinging mud will do that to you)

The seam count is just the beginning, if I am finishing drywall I would rather have one nice long seam that I can walk down than to have to do the floor to ceiling exercise all day. Also your eye would be more apt to pick the repeating pattern of the seams if they were not right on the money, especially with a flat wall and med sheen paint, with the seam at belly level it is less likely to be noticed.

No chip here, just trying to pass on the logic that was given to me, I always try to lay out a room so that the seams I have are easy to reach and as few as possible. Time = money.

james

james johnson
08-13-2004, 08:21 PM
I also forgot to mention that i use drywall tools ( bazoka,and boxes ( corner and flat )), so going vert for a flat seam makes it very difficult to finish with boxes and also makes running the bazoka a pain, but even if i was hand taping i would rather walk a long seam.

next thing we are going to start pissing about top or bottom sheet first ( i do top )

james

TR Construction
08-13-2004, 08:52 PM
James,

There's no question what you say makes a lot of sense, and is well worth consideration, but my focus of discussion wasn't geared so much towards which way is better, but that everyone is saying the 'verticals' will crack, and in my experience, that's just not the case. It doesn't go 'sight unseen' that most or all of you drywall experts prefer horizontal, so obviously there's got to be some 'validity' to that. As far as the lineal footage question, you originally said 8 vertical seams was equal to 64 lineal feet, where I'm saying it would be 56 (unless you counted the corner, which you shouldn't because you didn't count any corners in your 40 foot calculation). Anyway, I didn't post the original question to start any 'pissing' contests, but if that's how it turns out, I guess that's the nature of the 'beast'. P.S. I hate to get 'too' agreeable at this point in time, but yes, top sheet first. And you know if I could argue with that one, I would.

james johnson
08-13-2004, 09:17 PM
TR,

In my second to last post i addressed the corner issue, yes sitting about with a calculator after a day of work is bound to bring some “ funny” results, the vert drywall count was off and I admit that, I just do not know where you get the 56’ number unless you are starting with a ˝ sheet. Well that horse has been flogged to death.

On the subject of pissing contests, I did not want to start one either, and I didn’t think anything I said was offensive ( sorry if it was), I just noted that this thread turned into a vert vs. horiz. Pissing contest and I figured I would add some fuel to the fire with the top or bottom first discussion.

As far as vert vs. horiz. I was just trying to point out some of the benefits of running horizantal , I really think you will be fine with vertical but the job is stronger if run horiz. If you work alone I see why you hang vert, other than that I do not get it. I see from your earlier posts that it may be to avoid but joints but there are so many better ways to skin that cat now.

Again sorry if I came across as having a chip or as being a know it all, I like you do not do this ( drywall ) constantly but I do, do all of my own drywall work in house as well as finishing and painting and my walls are canvas smooth and we get a big premium for the flat wall so if I can get these good results using this method and save my back I figured that I would pass on some info.

Now to add some more fuel for the fire….. if you have butts how do you handle them?? We use a home made butt taper thing.

Fire away.

james

TR Construction
08-14-2004, 10:16 AM
James,
The way I arrive at 56', is that 8 sheets of drywall - - side by side, have 7 seems in common (7 X 8' = 56'). I don't find anything you say offensive at all, in fact I'm appreciating you 'sharing' your knowledge. I have nothing against running horizontal, I guess it's more a matter of being self-taught, and that's the way I've always preferred to run them. As stated before, when I arrive at a job, I'm doing pretty much 'all' the work involved on my additions, so I'm rarely around other contractors. I rarely, if ever, sub anything out. I often do work by myself, and yes, I guess that's why I prefer 8'ers, though I usually run 10's or 12's on ceilings (yes, by myself). I use a custom-made 5', rabbeted 1 X 3 as my 'ceiling partner', which holds up one whole side for me while I hold and screw the other. The 1 X 3, rabbet side up (1/8" deep rabbet across half the width of the 1 X 3), is screwed in right onto the edge taper of my previous row, then once my sheet is up and the 1 X 3 is removed, the screw holes it left behind are in the tapered seam area, where they'll get filled in automatically with the 'tape bed', no extra work involved. The purpose of the rabbett is simply to give some play when sliding the sheet in, rather than struggling with it. Hey, whatever works, right? I install anywhere from 12 - 16 sheets a day myself, depending on the 'factors' and cuts. Maybe that's slow, I don't know. As far as the 'butt seam' method, I use scrap 2 X's as cats, and scrap 3/4 plywood as a backer. I'd be very interested to hear about your home-made butt taper 'thing'.

SteveH
08-15-2004, 07:02 AM
TR,

Read this article on wood shrinkage and drywall!

http://www.umass.edu/bmatwt/publications/articles/detailing_for_wood_shrinkage.html

When I made by family room a cathedral ceiling from an 8" high ceiling and when I installed the skylights I noticed that the old 2x10 shrunk by almost 1/2" and I had to cut the new ones to be in line with the old ones.

That's why butt joints on a stud crack or ridge.

Manny Davis
08-15-2004, 10:22 AM
TR,

Read this article on wood shrinkage and drywall!

http://www.umass.edu/bmatwt/publications/articles/detailing_for_wood_shrinkage.html

When I made by family room a cathedral ceiling from an 8" high ceiling and when I installed the skylights I noticed that the old 2x10 shrunk by almost 1/2" and I had to cut the new ones to be in line with the old ones.

That's why butt joints on a stud crack or ridge.

A shrinking stud shrinks away from the face of the drywall. The only way a shrinking stud could cause a butt to ridge is if all the other studs shrink and the stud with the butt joint doesn't.

Shrinkage can definitely cause ridging, but not the way you are claiming.

TR Construction
08-15-2004, 11:02 AM
Steve,

That's an excellent article, thanks. I'm familiar with most of the symptoms discussed, but there's always more to be learned. So if your 2 X 10's (nominal 9 1/4") shrunk 1/2", that's 5.5%. Alright, I figured 5% tops, maybe I'm a hair off. Hopefully, you ripped 1/4" off each side of your new 2 X 10 to keep it more 'stable', and you 'favored' your fasteners more towards the bottom, so any future movement would happen more at the top. Understanding and allowing for movement is the key. If you don't make these adjustments, and your new 2 X 10 shrinks the same 1/2", where will that leave you? Now, if a 2 X 4 stud were to shrink 5%, it would measure about 1 7/16" (actually, about 1 13/32"), X about 3 5/16". The 1/16" it shrinks in thickness (1/32" for each 'side' of the tapered seam intersection), (in all reality it would be closer to 1/64" for each side, because of the 'fastener' location), is easily 'absorbed' by the paper tape that we install for that very purpose. When and if the width of the 2 X 4 shrinks 3/16", both 'intersecting' sheets move together right along with it, no harm done. Of course, we're remembering never to attach the drywall fasteners too close to the top or the bottom of the walls.

BryPaulD
08-20-2004, 08:22 AM
I find it a pain in the butt to run a flat box on vertical joints. TR.. do you use screws in your corners also??

TR Construction
08-20-2004, 02:34 PM
I screw in the 'second' sheet of the 2 that make up the corner.

Myron Ferguson
09-02-2004, 09:27 PM
Hanging the drywall horizontal can give you as much as 25% less footage of seams to tape. If you are worried about the butt seams the try backblocking, (but that may be opening up another can of worms).

F Grambo
09-02-2004, 09:52 PM
[Paragraphs please)_

creativecarpenter
05-19-2005, 10:15 AM
wow! this thread is cookin!
well, i hung vertically 20 years ago, some of it vertically, and never had a callback. i wouldn't do it vertically today, unless the circumstances demanded it. (oops, i did it vertically 8 months ago...kid's due on the 15th of june) Let me rephrase that.... I wouldn't hang drywall vertically today, unless circumstances demanded it. I tend to believe that the wood we get today moves and shrinks much more than it did before 1990's. so what we could do back then, has changed to adapt to the problems we found when using the younger wood products. such things as floating corners, glue, screws, thicker tapes, more use of stronger muds, putting a million lags into one 2x4 corner post just to keep it from doing a 180....etc.

how's that for a new direction on this thread?

doitallman.com
12-12-2007, 10:56 AM
Gentleman,

doitallman.com
12-12-2007, 11:01 AM
Gentleman,
Going verticle on boxes is no problem. I am a Union and Residential finish pro that has 22 years in drywall finish. I have worked with some of the most consumit professionals I have ever met. I have years of experience in all applications and types of mud and believe me there is no metheod, bead, level of finish, mix ready or hand mix products that I have used because I used them all. Lets put to bed some myths. You run railroad on wood residential because of settling and lumber drying. Commercial work is always stood up because metal is true. If you want to be schooled by the smoothest finish in the industry turn to the men and women of Local #39 of the Carprnters Union. Or call me, everyone else is an amature.7323331600

jasoncring
12-12-2007, 11:23 AM
Do you mean that everyone who is not a member of Local 39 is an amateur? Or that everyone else in Local 39, other than yourself, is an amateur?

Toolwhore
12-12-2007, 11:37 AM
doitallman,

Where do you find hats that fit your head? :)

magna111
12-12-2007, 11:49 AM
3 years later and the math is still wrong...
56' if you dont count the corners
72' i you do
id go with 44' horizontal b/c i would do one butt joint on the top sheet 2 on the bottom so they are stagered
add another 16' if your including corners!

doitallman.com
12-12-2007, 12:09 PM
How many people really know what mud to use in what application. Well let me spell it out so you dont make the same mistake these self taght geniouses are making.

The green lid USG is for taping. This product can be used in every step but there will be concerns of shrinkage and drying time. The reason you use on the first step green is because it has water and glue in it and it bonds to the tape and shrinks better for the joints at the bevel and for the butts.

The best product out there now for finishing is a product called Rapid Set. It comes in a beige color and drys fairly white so you can tell when it is dry. It also sands and sculps well.

The blue or purple lid USG in my opinion and many others it is too soft.

If you need any other help on dry wall and finishing just ask a pro from The United Brotherhood of Carpenters Local #39 Interior Finisher

magna111
12-12-2007, 12:19 PM
hey, lets not get too advanced here!

Joepro0000
12-12-2007, 05:52 PM
I real finisher can finish with what ever mud, I finished a BORDERS with Green Box'ed Mud, and Black lid from ProForm, no problems!

TSJHD1
12-12-2007, 06:45 PM
TR,

How was my math skewed? 32 foot long wall 8 feet high.... if I hung 16'boards across the studs that would give me one 32 foot seam with one 8' butt (32 + 8 = 40) that would be 40 lineal feet of seam to tape, one nice long seam at waist height and one vertical butt joint that I could use any number of methods to make disappear. If I hung the same room with the rock going vert I would have 64 lf of seam (32 / 4 = 8 x 8 feet high = 64 lineal feet) now in all fairness to your math I am counting the two corners in my vert ct, so a more realistic count would be 56lf vs. 64 lf or 40 lf vs. 48 (slinging mud will do that to you)

The seam count is just the beginning, if I am finishing drywall I would rather have one nice long seam that I can walk down than to have to do the floor to ceiling exercise all day. Also your eye would be more apt to pick the repeating pattern of the seams if they were not right on the money, especially with a flat wall and med sheen paint, with the seam at belly level it is less likely to be noticed.

No chip here, just trying to pass on the logic that was given to me, I always try to lay out a room so that the seams I have are easy to reach and as few as possible. Time = money.

james

Its actually skewed in two ways:

Ignoring the ends of the wall, since they'd add the same amount of seams either way you hang it...

Horizontally you'd have 32' of tapered seam, and with 16' sheets you would have to break bond on either the top or bottom sheets, which would give you TWO butt joints on one row, and one on the other row, totaling 12', not 8'.

Total seams: 44lf.

Vertically, its 32' divided by 4' wide sheets, which does give you 8. But that's 8 SHEETS, not seams. Its only 7 seams. 7 times 8' is 56lf.

Tom

TSJHD1
12-12-2007, 07:07 PM
TR, think of it this way...

You say you do most all the work yourself. That means you do not know the finer points of the specific trades like guys who specialize in one trade, like the drywallers who answered you.

You got responses from the kinds of guys who do this work all the time, and with the exception of commercial work, they all tend to agree that horizontally is the way to hang. That says something worth noting: Even among pros, you rarely get a general consensus about anything.

You asked, "What am I missing?" You got a great answer from SteveH, with all kinds of good insights into why horizontal is better.

You asked for info, and got very good answers, but still are not swayed.

Are all these guys wrong?

Tom

TSJHD1
12-12-2007, 07:24 PM
How many people really know what mud to use in what application. Well let me spell it out so you dont make the same mistake these self taght geniouses are making.

The green lid USG is for taping. This product can be used in every step but there will be concerns of shrinkage and drying time. The reason you use on the first step green is because it has water and glue in it and it bonds to the tape and shrinks better for the joints at the bevel and for the butts.

The best product out there now for finishing is a product called Rapid Set. It comes in a beige color and drys fairly white so you can tell when it is dry. It also sands and sculps well.

The blue or purple lid USG in my opinion and many others it is too soft.

If you need any other help on dry wall and finishing just ask a pro from The United Brotherhood of Carpenters Local #39 Interior Finisher

On a slightly different tangent...

You sure are a cocky sob, or maybe just extremely sarcastic. If its sarcasm, you aren't good at it at all, because to use it effectively, your audience needs to KNOW its sarcasm. Which means they need to first know you. 3 posts don't get it done!

But you sound like you know your stuff, but only for your particular type of work. Read Greg's article on other methods/products of finishing drywall, due to small jobs' different time constraints.

Point-no one way is right for all situations. But I'll be sure and save your name for future questions. Cocky or not, you seem to have good skills.

Stay involved here.

Tom

jasoncring
12-12-2007, 07:45 PM
Tom, I'm not sure you should be speaking to the Doitallman in that fashion. After all, there's 8 or maybe 10 guys in the world who know that USG green lid "is for taping." This guy is giving away trade secrets like candy on Halloween! I just hope he stops before spills all the beans and puts the rest of us out of business!

TSJHD1
12-12-2007, 08:14 PM
Tom, I'm not sure you should be speaking to the Doitallman in that fashion. After all, there's 8 or maybe 10 guys in the world who know that USG green lid "is for taping." This guy is giving away trade secrets like candy on Halloween! I just hope he stops before spills all the beans and puts the rest of us out of business!

Ain't scared of these union guys.

Tom

jasoncring
12-12-2007, 08:59 PM
Tom, are you saying that attending a meeting at Local 39 would be a lot like going to a Burt Ward Fan Club convention with Richard Simmons as a guest speaker?

betterdrywall
12-12-2007, 09:43 PM
Rapid set /Sudden bond is not a new product . it has been out on the market for as long as i can remember and then some. just for chits and giggles , how would you and your local union guys go about using nothing but the best ,Rapid bond , on say a home that has 20,000 sq ft of sheetrock and high cielings everywhere ? how long do you think it would take you and the pro's to finish it out using nothing but the best mud out there Rapid bond ?????? and please tell us of the way you are going to go about the production and finish of a home that size in detail , how many guys and there jobs . and where are you going to start at ? high cielings first ? garage ? small rooms ?? are you going to be taping and applying the cornerbead at the same time ? please let us know

parkwest
12-12-2007, 11:36 PM
Hey. I read this whole thread and I am confused. Who is "spackling" what? I thought spackling is what painters used to do touch-ups.

As for running seams, if for no other reason than not having your guys bending over all day would be enough of a reason to run horizontally.

Someone mentioned that all the drywall is doing is holding itself to the wall. Correct me if I am wrong, but I do believe there is some shearwall strength after applying drywall.

Hanging drywall by yourself... now someone is surely into pain. Try a panel lift. Then maybe you won't come on the forum all grumpy after hanging your 12 sheets. LOL

scott_w
12-13-2007, 08:21 AM
I mostly do single rooms, a small bathroom, family rooms etc. All remodels, no new construction. Seeing as the rooms are so small, it is impossible to get anyone out to hang/mud. The last person I talked to (an the olny that would show up) said they wouldn't show up for anything less than $2k, even though it was 10 sheets, no ceilings (3-12's, 7-8's). In my opinion, quite simple.

This is why I resorted to hanging and mudding myself. For a long time, I preferred to hang vert. I was always afraid of butt joints. To date I have never had a problem/callback as well.

I did recently switch to hanging horizontal. I can't tell you how happy I am, it is alot faster, especially finishing. I have also learned to use knives properly, which helped alot (thanks to the helpfull posts here). Recently purchased the radius 360.. and it is a huge improvement as well.

I think (an this is just my opinion), that you should hang it however it works best for you.

scott

savant
12-13-2007, 12:25 PM
Parkwest, you are correct sir. in fact I happen to know that Gypsum SHEATHING is used in the south.
http://www.nationalgypsum.com/literature/gypsumconstructionguide/GypSheathing.pdf
How's that fer greenboard? Yeah! :}
Gypsum has shear, and in my post #74 on Myron's Adhesive thread, you can find the ICC doc. that tells how to get the most out of it.

betterdrywall
12-13-2007, 10:49 PM
the term "spackling" is what most matintance workers and painters use. it is there way of fixing and touching up walls and cielings. lite spackle can be used after primer coat on slick finish work to cover up minor scraches or blimishes . that is if you want to use it . maintance workers and painters use it to cover up nail holes and dings , then they paint right over it . slap it on ,your done . hope this helps , dont worry most of you guys will be able to pass your test this friday . just be on time for drywall 101,class starts at 7 am sharp . sorry i must be bored .

Mike from NH
12-16-2007, 11:15 AM
I fired a new hanger that hung a 55 sheet job on a 3rd floor walk up. Hung all the walls vertically. The builder never told me. I found out a week after it was hung. Figured all was ok when I got paid for the hanging. I called the hanger up and he told me that there should be no issue with finishing, and would be easier. I agreed to some degree, however a vertical joint is defiantelly a warranty issue and I guy who claims to gave 28 years in the drywall business should know that. Then he hung up on me.....

betterdrywall
12-17-2007, 06:57 PM
sounds like it was his way or no way , some crews can be very hard to deal with . i have no probelm with single sheet installed vertically to save on joints . but not along an enitre wall . you can take the time and mark on the window or floor what size sheets you want" layout" same for ceiling . seen this done before in the past if sheetrock is not installed that way there is no pay on that wall or ceiling . you can do this when you are counting out for delivery .

savant
12-18-2007, 08:06 PM
betterdrywall,
what do your layout symbols on the floor look like? I draw marker lines on photocopies of the plans, and hand them out. But not everybody seems to be able to find their way out of a paper bag.

betterdrywall
12-18-2007, 09:46 PM
8 ; 12
........................
12 : 8
this would be for one wall best i can do here , not great at typing. but simply draw a line and separate it between sheets . i dont do this myself . i dont have the time it takes to run complete layout . i just talk things over and have the hangers correct it on the next job . most stuff is just minor corrections i have . only time i have probelms is when they hire a new guy and screws stick out . this method does work great when you hire a new crew your not sure of . and it also make them understand real quick who is in charge of there money and where the responisblity lies on there part . no more i dont care additude . that cost them there azz .