View Full Version : hung to paint; due process?
05-18-2004, 04:10 PM
Could I get some thoughts on proper procedure; hanging rock through to finish painting? We are pretty much a new gen. contract. co., and are still working things out. We had a sub finish the rock, then my boss sprayed a coat of primer and two coats of top. When we were done, suddenly the seams were highly visible, there were pockmarks on pretty much every seam, every corner had line marks from the mesh sanding pads that were used, and the homeowners were screaming bloody murder.
Since then inquiries have brought up topics like back rolling, you have to paint useing only a roller, only texture can perfectly hide a seam(we had a flat finish) and other painting techniques. This guy has been in business for (he says) 22 years, but I'm telling you, I could have done a better job! So, I'm asking, did we paint wrong? Does this guy suck? What are your thoughts?
Hmm. I'll attempt an unbiased response. A good looking wall is a shared responsibility. Much like good trim relying on good framing or any other argument you want to make, the drywaller and the painter are both in on it. But they each have limits as to what's reasonable. If your seams are visible, that could be either of them, but the pocking - definate no no on the drywallers part. But as GC, your bust for not catching it and having it fixed before paint went on. Personal opinion, using an airless to paint walls might fly in an apartment complex (read: low expectation of quality) but it's not the way to paint a house if you want to be taken seriously as a painter.
I have some latitude in remodels that new construction doesn't lend itself to as easily. And I'm anal retentive, but I charge for it, so here's how I go about it to still sleep at night. After hanging, taping, and mudding, you get to everyone's favorite of sanding yourself into a pillar of Gypsum. When I'm done with a pole, I walk the whole thing with a fine block in my hand and look for everything I can find. Any little thing gets either sanded by hand or if it's a divor or pock, I circle it in pencil. Great big nobody can miss it sign on the wall. Then I mud the touchups, with a little chalk from the chalk box mixed in so I can easily see the patched areas if the pencil lines get covered. Then I sand it again . . . and when that's done I spotlight the whole thing with low angle light and make sure. Told you I was a ***** about it. Now dust the walls down so you don't have sanding haze all over everything. Vac like crazy. I hate kicking up DW dust every time the nailer exhausts.
Trim next, then stain and lacquer on the wall, then mask, and all brush and roller work.
Backrolling could have helped if all you did was spray - evens out the paint, works it in a little better if you do have pinholes, but that's kind of irrelevant. You shouldn't have had them. A good painter would do all the priming and then go around like I do and spotlight things before topcoats to make sure that he/she avoids the kind of issues you are having. A lot easier to see the defects after the primer is on.
As general it's your responsibility to check each stage and approve it befor the next trade continues. Having said that it sounds like there is enough blame to go around. First the quality leval of the finish should be discused befor the work begins. For a high end smooth wall you generaly pay a premium. A leval 5 wall should have no visable seams. The taper fell down on the job if there are pock marks, and scratch paterns from the mesh sanding screens. At the least you boss should have cought this when he primed and stoped untill it was repaired. On this type of wall mud boxes and heavy sanding dose not cut it. I use a tapered but joint to lesson the crowning. You can tape as usual, the last coat is a hand job, knife or trowel. Check every joint for flatnes and feather as necessary. Then you need to wipe down every inch with a wet sponge and bright light. Removing all dust and every mark.Touch up any thing you can see, the paint will only maginfy every imperfection.
This brings us to painting. I have seen people go through a house with flat wall paint and an airless sprayer. When they were done it looked like they used a gloss paint, and you could see every seam ,nail,and mark there was. I would start with a wall surfacer. USG, PP&G Sherwin & Wilmans, all make good products. If you are running a smooth wall do not skip this step. You can spray it if you back roll. Any inperfections at this point should be fixed before painting. I would typically spray and back roll a surficer, spray and backrool the cieling paint, cut in by hand and rool 2 coats of wall paint.Also you need to keep in mind drying times, just becaus it is dry to the touch in 20 min dose not mean it is ready to second coat, folow the recomended instructions.
The bad side of your problem is that what you have will never go away. The only way I have ever been able to fix this problem is to sand the painted walls. Feather the bad joints,then skim the entire wall,sand any marks with a fine mesh or block. Then start painting all over. Good luck with the home owner.
05-20-2004, 06:30 AM
Thanks for the advice y'all.
I will bet you are from the South from the subs running over you like they did and of course, your response. My lead carpenters are responsible for daily if not multi-daily checks on work progress. It does not matter if they are working that job or not.
Subs here have a well developed working system... Work for a contractor two weeks, quit and go to the next and tell him you are experienced as a helper, take the increase in pay. Repeat process until you can claim about "10 years experience" in that one year. They now know the language, and some or most of the basic procedures. About the second or third year, they are now qualified to do it all so they become a sub. Many Remodeling GCs run from these. Unfortunately, the new home builders love them. They do not know how to price all of those little extras on the print. Hey, they do not even recognize them either. At some point in time, they learn how to break your back by trying to run too many jobs. You see, they have those new F-150 payments to make now. Many do not have a bank account let alone pay taxes. Or, it is the immigrant where the contractor owns the slum apartments... I call these the class "B" subs. They have quality references, as well as sounding and looking well. The easiest way to find many is to go to your local detention center as it lets out from the weekend lockups for DUI.
It is going to shock you as well as your boss with full line voltage when you here the prices of the class "A" subs. Twice to three times is about normal.
Learn how to sort them all out, look at their work. Some of those qualifying the work and giving good references, are not qualified to give that reference.
The News is that now class "B" subs now charge as much as the class "A" subs.
One more thing... When they give you certificates of insurances, call their insurance agent and find out their history. "Bs" will go take insurance out to meet your requirements, then stop making payments. I was caught by one of these about 4 years ago. I received certificates from all as the job started. When the roofer arrived, his had lapsed. When he caused liability, it was mine to pay. At that time, I could have my GL go out and take care of it. Of course, the bill was mine to pay to the underwriters which we did. The customer thought it was handled so professionally, we have completed yet another project for them.
Ya'll be good, and do be thorough.
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